RE: FreeBSD-newbies group is a compromise community.

From: Sally Hines (shines_at_smaller.net)
Date: 03/20/04

  • Next message: Sally Hines: "RE: FreeBSD-newbies is a community." 
    To: <freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org>
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 10:16:30 -0800

    I am receiving the -questions list. I delete the messages as they are too
    many, and too detailed for me. Not to mention that most are not relevant to
    any experience I am having.

    How can I ask a question on the -questions list and get the response? I
    cannot read them all, they are too many for me. I would rather that there
    was a "-newbies questions" list, where some more experienced folks are
    willing to take some time to explain simple questions and concepts to
    newbies. I know this will not happen, it is just my wish.

    I know that the first thing to do is "read the manual", and I try. I need a
    list that will help me to understand what I read in the man pages.

    Right now I am getting an error message when I try to do portupgrade. I am
    very reluctant to try to send that error message to the -questions list.

    Sally Hines
    Older user

    -----Original Message-----
    From: owner-freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org
    [mailto:owner-freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org] On Behalf Of Greg 'groggy' Lehey
    Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 7:04 PM
    To: Anurak C.
    Cc: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org; Eric
    Subject: Re: FreeBSD-newbies group is a compromise community.

    On Friday, 19 March 2004 at 9:23:52 +0700, Anurak C. wrote:
    > On Friday, March 19, 2004 5:18 AM, Eric wrote:
    >> Quoting Freddie Cash <fcash-ml@sd73.bc.ca>:
    >>
    >>>> On Mar 18, 2004, at 11:58 AM, Jamie wrote:
    >>>>> I'm trying to upgrade my to openssl 0.9.7d from 0.9.7c and am
    >>>>> having a really rough time. ...
    >>>
    >>> And once again we're shown why technical questions are NOT to be
    >>> asked on the newbies list. This list is NOT for technical support.
    >>> This list is to discuss the newbie experience. What works for you,
    >>> what wonderful things you've discovered, your experiences with
    >>> FreeBSD at home or work. Things like that. Consider it a coffee
    >>> shop where everyone comes after work to just shoot the breeze about
    >>> life.
    >>>
    >>> Technical questions should be asked on the FreeBSD-Questions mailing
    >>> list, where all the gurus and wizards lurk. They can provide
    >>> answers that are correct on the first shot, and consistent from
    >>> poster to poster.
    >>
    >> Frankly I can't decide which is more annoying - receiving user
    >> questions posted on the "wrong" discussion list, or receiving
    >> complaints that the user questions were posted on the "wrong"
    >> discussion list.
    >
    > This is my first time to post to this mailing list. I can call myself
    > a newbie as well. I would like to share my point of view that there
    > are many people out there who doesn't know where to ask easy
    > questions. Most new arrival to FreeBSD or Unix world think that they
    > are coming to another new world full of gurus and hackers. Unix seems
    > to be the world for experts.

    This concern was the original reason for this mailing list.

    > I realize that FreeBSD-newbies is not for technical questions but it
    > is just the general agreement or a concept.

    It's the charter:

      Welcome to FreeBSD!

      This list is a gathering place for people new to FreeBSD. Please
      feel free to share your experiences with others on this list.

      Support questions should be sent to freebsd-questions@freebsd.org.
      Technical questions should be sent to freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org.
      (NOT to the newbies list please)

      Full info and FAK http://www.welearn.com.au/freebsd/newbies/

      Please read the info and FAK. They contain important information
      regarding the purpose and use of this mailing list.

      To see the collection of prior postings to the list, visit the
      freebsd-newbies Archives

    The reasoning for this is twofold:

    1. People on -newbies are, by definition, newbies. In general, they
        understand the system less well than people who have been around
        for a while. As a result, the answers you get from them may not
        be as accurate as the answers you would get on -questions.

    2. Most members of mailing lists never post. They just lurk and
        learn by the questions and answers sent by other people. This is
        also the reason why we ask people to copy the list on answers.

    > All of us know this agreement but
    > still answer again and again. I don't know why. I have seen many
    people
    > here offer help to new comers without complaining them. Maybe there is
    > something compromising in our community, Daemon?
    >
    > I am not convincing everyone to violate the agreement but please be
    patient
    > to new comers. We may answer them and suggest them to ask in
    > FreeBSD-questions for more detail.

    This usually doesn't happen. It would be a lot better if people would
    respect the charter. It's there for a reason.

    Greg 

    --
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