Re: Time to shut down this list?
From: Joshua Tinnin (krinklyfig_at_spymac.com)
Date: 12/27/04
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To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 14:03:11 -0800
On Monday 27 December 2004 01:30 pm, Wes Peters <wes@softweyr.com>
wrote:
> On Monday 27 December 2004 07:45, Jeff Lewis wrote:
> > Wes Peters <wes@softweyr.com> wrote:
> > > If I knew of a good, simple FAQ that answered this, I would've
> > > pointed you to it. The problem is, somebody else is going to want
> > > this same question answered again next week, and they're not
> > > going to know to search the archives for this wonderful answer
> > > I've just given you. That's an even "better" problem to solve
> > > than simply answering your question, even if it doesn't solve
> > > your immediate problem.
> >
> > I concur with your reasoning here. Does this mean that you believe
> > the charter should be altered as opposed to disbanding the list?
>
> No, I think the original charter would serve newbies better than
> asking technical questions and receiving bad advice on the -newbies
> list. I'm all for keeping the newbies list as a place to learn about
> other's experiences with learning FreeBSD, and as a place to get
> general questions like 'how do I learn more about running a web
> server on FreeBSD.'
>
> What I don't want is to have an ongoing situation where questions get
> asked and answered POORLY, leading people to believe that FreeBSD is
> somehow broken.
>
> When Sue Blake was the list nanny, issues like this generally got
> handled. Sue hasn't been active for more than a year, and the quality
> of the interactions has dropped because of it.
>
> If the list is to survive, it needs another nanny (or a nanny group),
> to direct people to FAQ, the -questions list, or other resources when
> they veer outside the list charter and start needing technical help.
I am curious about this. Did Sue ever encounter newbies who were
intimidated about asking -questions, and, if so, how did she handle it?
I realize that there is a certain personality to the lists, and the
people on FreeBSD's lists are more courteous than most (at least in my
experience), but how do you convince someone it's worth it to ignore
the noise? Moreover, I've found that most people in such a situation
don't want to ask the -questions list due to the traffic, although I
suppose it's always possible to post to the list without joining it.
> > Would you be willing to join Joshua Tinnin in supporting such a
> > change by moderating the list, helping to determine when a question
> > should go to the -questions list, and attempting to help the
> > newbies with their issues?
> >
> > I KNOW that I am not asking you to do something simple. I recognize
> > the significance of this. But as I originally stated, modifying the
> > charter of this list without the support of folks like you and
> > Joshua is simply foolish, and would absolutely CREATE the very
> > scenario that Greg was trying to prevent, newbies getting wrong
> > answers.
>
> I'd like to, but I can't. Between work and family and FreeBSD I'm
> already overbooked, I haven't had any real personal time in more than
> two years.
>
> > I am not qualified to know who COULD be qualified to answer these
> > questions either. At best, I can only express the desire to have a
> > place where my dumb questions are not only expected, but where
> > someone can actually see a little past the question and try to get
> > at the underlying cause of the original confusion.
>
> The cool part is, we don't need somebody who can answer questions, or
> even necessarily tell the user where to get them answered. What we
> really need is somebody to watch for threads that are veering off
> into non-newbies-list topics and redirect those.
>
> I don't know that it really requires official moderation, though we
> could do that if the list members don't respond appropriately to
> suggestions by the nanny(ies).
Well, I agree that this would likely be the best of both worlds: having
moderation without having a moderator, per se, but it seems to me like
the frequency of newbies asking for technical help on this list
indicates a lack of clear communication of the group charter. I realize
newbies are less inclined (in general) to read instructions, but
perhaps this in itself is reason to make the charter more clear to
people before they join.
- jt
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