Re: Top Posting (was: [Freebsd 5.4 not finding my NIC])

From: Vizion (vizion_at_vizion.occoxmail.com)
Date: 05/28/05

  • Next message: Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC: "Re: Top Posting (was: [Freebsd 5.4 not finding my NIC])" 
    To: bob@a1poweruser.com
Date: Sat, 28 May 2005 08:31:52 -0700

    On Saturday 28 May 2005 06:42, the author bob@a1poweruser.com contributed to
    the dialogue on RE: Top Posting (was: [Freebsd 5.4 not finding my NIC]):

    >
    >-----Original Message-----
    >From: owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
    >[mailto:owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]On Behalf Of Vizion
    >Sent: Friday, May 27, 2005 3:17 PM
    >Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
    >Subject: Top Posting (was: [Freebsd 5.4 not finding my NIC])
    >
    >
    >On Friday 27 May 2005 12:09, the author Dmitry Mityugov contributed
    >to the
    >
    >dialogue on Re: Freebsd 5.4 not finding my NIC:
    >>On 5/27/05, Vizion <vizion@vizion.occoxmail.com> wrote:
    >>> On Friday 27 May 2005 11:18, the author Dmitry Mityugov
    >
    >contributed to
    >
    >>> the
    >>>
    >>> dialogue on Re: Freebsd 5.4 not finding my NIC:
    >>> >On 5/27/05, Vizion <vizion@vizion.occoxmail.com> wrote:
    >>> >> thread
    >>> >> this
    >>> >> to
    >>> >> post
    >>> >> top
    >>> >> not
    >>> >> do
    >>> >> Please :-):-) (I have moved your input to bottom!) - it is
    >
    >easier to
    >
    >>> >This is not a newsgroup.
    >>> >Yes, please.
    >>>
    >>> this is a mail list -- not a private communication
    >>> This is not a file in which the latest letter gets pinned to the
    >
    >top!!!
    >
    >>> Please do not bring habits from the paper world to the electronic
    >
    >world!
    >
    >>Please don't ask me to invent my own habits my friend. Most of them
    >>have been inspired by other people, and for good reasons.
    >>
    >>> Netiquette is consideration for others
    >>
    >>It is always good to Google for an item before referring someone
    >
    >else to it.
    >I dont agree with that -- otherwise I would google everything I
    >wrote!!
    >
    >>> think of how easy it is to read -
    >>>
    >>> See how people can, with bottom posting, see the sequence of
    >
    >events ..
    >
    >>> and therefore understand what you say.
    >>> If you come to a mail list, like this, and want help then those
    >
    >who might
    >
    >>> be otherwise be willing to help might be discouraged and ignore
    >
    >you.
    >
    >>> Forcing people to read your stuff out of sequence is really quite
    >
    >rude. .
    >
    >>> ,
    >>> Think about long paragraphs
    >>> Think about reading the output from mail list threads and then
    >
    >responding
    >
    >>> to it..
    >>> Top posting is really inconsiderate and shows lack of experience
    >>
    >>I don't agree with this. Please, don't ask me why.
    >
    >Dont need to know -- but I appreciate your relevant interjection :-)
    >
    >>> Think about the effect of long paragraphs and then having to move
    >>> backwards and forwards and you read one paragraph downwards and
    >
    >then are
    >
    >>> foprced to move upwards to read the subsequent posting....
    >>> Tha means scanning and rescanning.
    >>> Top posting is neither sensible or practicable for the reader.
    >>> I learnt from those who showed me when I started using email well
    >
    >before
    >
    >>> the internet began.
    >>> Take care
    >>
    >>N/P.
    >>
    >>I read what Greg just posted here... If this is indeed how you
    >
    >live -
    >
    >>well, I'll follow that.
    >
    >I dont know what Greg posted
    >Take care
    >David
    >hay enough of this BS about top posting. You have to wake up to the
    >fact there are many people who belong to this list who are not UNIX
    >bigots. Us win/outlook people have just as much right to post as the
    >rest of you. And more to the point who the hell pointed this new
    >comer of just 10 days (vizion) as the cop to be forcing his slanted
    >views on the rest of us. To vizion aren't you suppose to be sailing
    >your boat right now bound for Europe via Panama Canal. Only thing
    >you have contributed is more background noise. This list was better
    >with out you. so concentrate on your sailing before you get lost and
    >need government help to save you from perishing at seas.
    >
    >
    If you really believe that top posting is better then this list gives you your
    democratic opportunity to convince me and everyone else who reads your
    posting. I am sad if you feel personally attacked by the suggestion that top
    posting is more thoughtful way of making a contribution to a discussion than
    bottom posting. If you hold a contrary view then please give us all the
    benefit of your advice.

    I am sad you seem to feel the need to make personal attacks on someone who
    hold an alternative view in the belief that that will advance your cause or
    intimidate debate. Unfortunately there is there is nothing i can do to
    convince you that such an aggresive approach may be as counter-productive on
    this list as it has been elsewhere.

    In the long term I believe you could realize that the act of top posting has
    the same effect whether we post from any type of computer system - (I use win
    XP/2000/98, apple, Linux or Freebsd) so do not believe you need to be
    influenced by the fact you are using Microsoft Outlook as your mailer.

    I believe, in a technical mailing list, the theme of concern for the reader
    is the central issue and that theme remains the same whatever mailer or OS
    you happen to use. I would like to persuade you to concentrate on that issue
    and not be be sidetracked by discussing my connection to the sea, which is as
    irrelevant to the discussion as your connection to Ohio. I want to hear what
    you have to say to support your point of view.
     
    I would suggest that how easy it is for readers to follow, and contribute, to
    the thread is what need to consider. I therefore believe that my use of unix,
    zenix, cpm and Dos before Dos became MsDOS or had windows grafted onto it, is
    irrelevant to the issue as is talk about "Unix bigots" which may be funny but
    does not ,tell me why you have the need to so vehemently oppose top posting.

    Perhaps you are just saying you do not like people expressing the fact that
    they find top posting makes it more difficult to help people solve the
    problems they bring to this list. Unfortunately for those who advocate top
    posting it is a fact.

    Perhaps, because you have been in the habit of top posting, you feel
    personally attacked by the suggestion that contributors might want to think
    about the effect on the dialogue of the way they post. I hope for your sake
    that is not true because it might take your mind off relevant discussion.

    If, after careful thought, you still advocate top posting, then please explain
    your reasons for making contributions in a way that compels readers, (who
    want to follow the discussion or help solve a problem), to constantly scroll
    upwards and downwards through the thread.

    I know it can be irritating to have ones habits challenged. But it is OK to
    accept alternative arguments even when you do not like the conclusions or the
    person who make them! I have no reason to seek your personal approval or
    disapproval so the fact that I have made contributions to freebsd mailing
    lists since the early 90's is irrelevant to that discussion. Let us try to
    work to understand one another's view points rather than be drawn away from
    them by irelevancies

    Take care

    David. 

    --
40 yrs navigating and computing in blue waters.
English Owner & Captain of British Registered 60' bluewater Ketch S/V Taurus.
 Currently in San Diego, CA. Sailing May bound for Europe via Panama Canal.
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  • Next message: Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC: "Re: Top Posting (was: [Freebsd 5.4 not finding my NIC])"

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