idesk, rox, and icewm

Okay, im trying to use icewm with rox and idesk, I start icewm, then start
rox pinboard, then idesk, but idesk always starts behind the rox pinboard
backdrop and I cant see the idesk. I went into winoptions for icewm, and
changed ROX-Pinboard.layer to behind (says to do that in the rox manual),
still cant see idesk, then i change idesk.layer to OnTop, still cant see it,
any suggestions?
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