[HPADM] RE: SUMMARY: Itanium/PArisc tape format compatibility - additional

From: Bob Vance (bobvance_at_alumni.caltech.edu)
Date: 07/11/03

  • Next message: Justin Willoughby: "[HPADM] Summary: K570 Boot Limitations?" 
    Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 08:09:10 -0400 (EDT)
To: hpux-admin@dutchworks.nl

    I've received replies suggesting to use 'dd' for the conversion.
    (Thanks to
         Bill Thompson [mailto:bill.thompson@goodyear.com]
     and Brett Geer [mailto:brett.geer@dhl.com]
    )

    I'm familiar with the dd conversion, but you'd hope that Bill and Martin are
    correct and that it would "just work" -- or maybe, that it doesn't.

    The real issue here, to me, is the uncertainty within HP. This should be a
    well-known and completely answerable issue, one way or another. Bill works
    for HP and, of course, is highly trusted on this list and says that it will
    work (and Martin says that he's actually *done* it). Yet, according to HP
    pre-sales support, "engineering", within HP, said that they tried it and it
    didn't work.

    I'm suspect about who this "engineering" is. You'd think that, within
    *real* HP engineering, this issue has long been addressed and known prior to
    releasing the Itanium products and that they wouldn't have to "try" it
    again, now ;>) -- and that there'd be a definite answer, one way or another.

    I'm hoping that it's not a case that it works for some (maybe, most)
    applications and their file formats, but not for others.

    ---------------------------------------------------------
    Tks <mailto:BVance@sbm.com>
    BV <mailto:BobVance@alumni.caltech.edu>
    Sr. Technical Consultant Vox 770-623-3430
    Arrow Electronics, Inc. Fax 801-327-6152
    Enterprise Computing Solutions
    SBM Division
    11455 Lakefield Dr.
    Duluth, GA 30097-1511
    =========================================================

    -----Original Message-----
    From: hpux-admin-owner@DutchWorks.nl
    [mailto:hpux-admin-owner@DutchWorks.nl]On Behalf Of Bob Vance
    Sent: 10 July 2003 08:21
    To: hpux-admin@DutchWorks.nl
    Subject: [HPADM] RE: SUMMARY: Itanium/PArisc tape format compatibility -
    additional

    I had also called HP pre-sales support about this and they said that they
    did not know but would forward it on to "engineering". In the meantime,
    "engineering" replied back that it would not work!!

    Here is what I got back: 

    ----
I just got this back from engineering...
We have run a quick test of this scenario and found that data backed up
on PA-Risk systems will NOT restore to IPF systems. In our test we
backed up some image data from a PA-Risc system then moved the tape
drive and media to an IPF system and recovered the images.  These images
are not viewable on the IPF system.  I would assume that if there is a
difference in endian with PA-Risc and IPF that the bytes are not being
recovered in the same order as the PA-Risk system would have required.
It looks as though without a special tool to do the byte swapping, media
created with PA-Risc systems is not compatible with IPF systems.
Although the media is recognized by both architectures the data created
by the backup tool would need to be smart enough to know which system
the recovery is targeted for.
I can not answer whether 'swpackage' is capable of knowing when to use
big-endian or small-endian when creating and restoring data from tape.
Without this functionality, this capability what is being asked below is
not possible.
----
---------------------------------------------------------
Tks                  <mailto:BVance@sbm.com>
BV                   <mailto:BobVance@alumni.caltech.edu>
Sr. Technical Consultant       Vox 770-623-3430
Arrow Electronics, Inc.        Fax 801-327-6152
Enterprise Computing Solutions
SBM Division
11455 Lakefield Dr.
Duluth, GA 30097-1511
=========================================================
-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Vance
Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 2:10 PM
To: hplst
Subject: RE: [HPADM] SUMMARY: Itanium/PArisc tape format compatibility
I just realized that I wasn't complete in my attribution in my SUMMARY.
"Bill" is, of course, Bill Hassell.
---------------------------------------------------------
Tks                  <mailto:BVance@sbm.com>
BV                   <mailto:BobVance@alumni.caltech.edu>
Sr. Technical Consultant       Vox 770-623-3430
Arrow Electronics, Inc.        Fax 801-327-6152
Enterprise Computing Solutions
SBM Division
11455 Lakefield Dr.
Duluth, GA 30097-1511
=========================================================
-----Original Message-----
From: hpux-admin-owner@DutchWorks.nl
[mailto:hpux-admin-owner@DutchWorks.nl]On Behalf Of Bob Vance
Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2003 11:19 AM
To: hpux-admin@DutchWorks.nl
Subject: [HPADM] SUMMARY: Itanium/PArisc tape format compatibility
(Original post at end)
Thanks to
  Martin [mailto:lodahl@foothill.net]
  Bill
It seems that I'll be OK.
When running HP-UX on Itanium, the byte order is changed (Itanium supports
both byte orders) to the same as for PArisc so it "just works".
REPLIES:
--- from Martin
Don't worry about it, it will work.  Everything you've mentioned is running
at an application level, and bit-ordering is only an issue down at the bare
metal.  The IA64 chip itself is bi-endian, and actually changes bit order
during the process of booting HP-UX.  Once HP-UX is up, ordering is no
longer an issue.  I've moved files between the two architectures by a lot of
methods, and have never had a problem.  SD-UX, however, changed formats
between 10.X and 11.X so you may have some issues there, but they'll be the
same issues you'd have on PA-RISC.
-Martin
(The issue raised here about SD formats is benign for me.
 The depots are maintained in their native platform formats.
 This is a special implementation of Ignite provided by HP because we
 are a distributor.
 I've created 'swpackage' depots for 10.20, 11.00, 11.11 and they work fine.
 -bob
)
--- from Bill
The short answer is: yes
Itanium is a unique that supports both endians. If you
run HP-UX on Itanium then the resultant files will be
restored the same way (and will be copmpatible) on
the Itanium box running HP-UX.
The long answer is probably somewhere on the HP website as it
discusses IA-64 features. A quick search for itanium endian
does find a lot of docs. The big/little-endian setting is
set by the opsystem as it loads/runs.  That's a requirement
for Itanium opsystem design (Linux, Windows, HP-UX). All of
these opsystems are heavily customized at a very low level
to run on Itanium.
---------------------------------------------------------
Tks                  <mailto:BVance@sbm.com>
BV                   <mailto:BobVance@alumni.caltech.edu>
Sr. Technical Consultant       Vox 770-623-3430
Arrow Electronics, Inc.        Fax 801-327-6152
Enterprise Computing Solutions
SBM Division
11455 Lakefield Dr.
Duluth, GA 30097-1511
=========================================================
-----Original Message-----
From: hpux-admin-owner@DutchWorks.nl
[mailto:hpux-admin-owner@DutchWorks.nl]On Behalf Of Bob Vance
Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2003 9:24 AM
To: hpux-admin@DutchWorks.nl
Subject: [HPADM] Itanium/PArisc tape format compatibility
I'm worried about byte order of the data.
The simple question is:
Generally, can I create a tape under PArisc HP-UX 10.20 (or 11.00 or 11.11)
and then restore it correctly on an Itanium box running HP-UX 11.22.
Will 'tar', 'cpio', 'fbackup' be compatible in this scenario?
More specifically,
We have the Itanium Ignite depots for HP-UX 11.22 (along with the PArisc
depots for 10.20, 11.00, 11.11) on 2 PArisc boxes (running 10.20, as
mandated by HP manufacturing).  I can create a 'swinstall' tape from those
11.22 depots using 'swpackage'.   However, my worry is byte-order on the
tape created by 'swpackage' running under HP-UX for PArisc (10.20).
Since we don't have an IPF box, I can't be sure that the tape created under
PArisc HP-UX will actually work under IPF HP-UX.  I'm guessing that it will
work, since the Ignite process/depots should be able to ignite an Itanium
box.
---------------------------------------------------------
Tks                  <mailto:BVance@sbm.com>
BV                   <mailto:BobVance@alumni.caltech.edu>
Sr. Technical Consultant       Vox 770-623-3430
Arrow Electronics, Inc.        Fax 801-327-6152
Enterprise Computing Solutions
SBM Division
11455 Lakefield Dr.
Duluth, GA 30097-1511
=========================================================
--
             ---> Please post QUESTIONS and SUMMARIES only!! <---
        To subscribe/unsubscribe to this list, contact
majordomo@dutchworks.nl
       Name: hpux-admin@dutchworks.nl     Owner:
owner-hpux-admin@dutchworks.nl
 Archives:  ftp.dutchworks.nl:/pub/digests/hpux-admin       (FTP, browse
only)
            http://www.dutchworks.nl/htbin/hpsysadmin   (Web, browse &
search)
--
             ---> Please post QUESTIONS and SUMMARIES only!! <---
        To subscribe/unsubscribe to this list, contact
majordomo@dutchworks.nl
       Name: hpux-admin@dutchworks.nl     Owner:
owner-hpux-admin@dutchworks.nl
 Archives:  ftp.dutchworks.nl:/pub/digests/hpux-admin       (FTP, browse
only)
            http://www.dutchworks.nl/htbin/hpsysadmin   (Web, browse &
search)
--
             ---> Please post QUESTIONS and SUMMARIES only!! <---
        To subscribe/unsubscribe to this list, contact majordomo@dutchworks.nl
       Name: hpux-admin@dutchworks.nl     Owner: owner-hpux-admin@dutchworks.nl
 
 Archives:  ftp.dutchworks.nl:/pub/digests/hpux-admin       (FTP, browse only)
            http://www.dutchworks.nl/htbin/hpsysadmin   (Web, browse & search)
  • Next message: Justin Willoughby: "[HPADM] Summary: K570 Boot Limitations?"

    Relevant Pages