Re: StorageTek on SAN with VMS

From: David J. Dachtera (djesys.nospam_at_fsi.net)
Date: 04/26/03 

Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 12:05:50 -0500

Scott Vieth wrote:
>
> "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message news:<3E98D14D.581F11CA@fsi.net>...
>
> > Well, not to intentionally be insulting, but that is my primary concern:
> > the subject of this as originally posted. You seem to have good SAN
> > experience in other areas, but my need is extremely specific.
>
> Yes, but you accept the *free* help when it is offered. The VMS part
> of your config is just the "last mile". The rest of the SAN-based
> tape backup system will be tricky if you have not done it before.

Been there, done that. SLS sucks in comparison to OASIS/RLM and
TapeControl that MTI used to sell, IMO.

The really shitty part is getting your tape drives recognized by VMS.
Pulled a few dozen teeth with HP and StorageTek before I got first
useful clues. The answer is in the Guide to Cluster Configurations, if
anyone cares, Chpater 7, Section 7.5 re: SYSMAN IO FIND_WWID.

> > I'd liken that to the 80/20 rule: in this case, 80% of your efforts
> > produce 20% of your results. I, on the other hand, have done the 20%
> > that produces 80% of my results before: develop Backup automation (on
> > VMS) that splits shadow/mirror sets, load balances across tape drives,
> > performs (crude) locking to reduce interference with the overnight batch
> > jobs, export cart.'s and rejoin shadow/mirror sets, all done in batch,
> > hands-off, lights-out and unattended.
>
> Whoopee-doo. I've done all that in a CI-based cluster. Playing with
> Volume Shadowing and CI-based storage is a piece of cake.

Controller-based RAID is bit more challenging, not mention that the only
software available for automation is unsupported and/or freeware.

> I have also done the same things you mention in a fibre channel
> environment on VMS. We have some pretty cool DCL scripts that reduce
> a controller-based RAID 0+1 set, stripe the disks into a temporary
> unit, take a controller-based snapshot of an online unit, present that
> snapshot to the host, back it up (across multiple tape drives in
> parallel), tear down the snapshot units and put the disks back into
> their original places in the RAID 0+1 set.

Now, add to that: some DCL to examine the output of SHOW STORAGE and
arbitrate which devices are eleigible to be removed from which storage
sets to build the units you will present to VMS for backup. My backup
code does that, also. It also does "locking" to prevent more than x
backup jobs from trying to draw data through any given HSJ at any one
time. This was needed to prevent negative impact on the regular
overnight batch processing that ran concurrently with the backups.

> Oh wait, you've never touched an HSG80 so you have no idea what I just
> said or how difficult it is to do this vs. doing it on CI.

Try again. Google this group for my name, backup, etc. and you'll find
the prior references.

> BTW, our stuff runs hands-off, lights-out as well.
>
> > The original environment was the
> > SAN predecessor known as CI,
>
> I *know* what CI is, you knob.

No ***, Jake.

> I have spent plenty of weekends
> installing CIPCAs and CIXCD cards. And setting those annoying little
> jumpers on the backplace to set the CI id for the CIXCDs. Did you
> ever install the firmware in your CIXCDs to get them to use 4k packets
> with the later model HSJs?

Was laid off from Advocate before they ever got that far. Too much older
gear on the CI at the time.

> but it went to direct-attached SCSI when
> > higher tape throughput with lower CI impact was need to satisfy a
> > mandate to shorten the backup "window" and lessen the interference with
> > the nightly processing.
> >
> > > You seem to be a little confused on the "How do I attach a library to
> > > the SAN" part.
> >
> > Well, take the subject of the original post very literally. Attaching
> > the library to the SAN is one thing. Getting VMS to recognize and access
> > the drives is of much broader scope, and that is the specific area where
> > I need the expertise of someone who has already been where I'm now
> > trekking.
> >
> > By appearances, I am blazing a VMS trail here as few, if any, have
> > already done what I'm trying to do, including the vendors selling this
> > stuff. They know it's possible, but when it comes to "how", they're all
> > left scratching their heads.
>
> No, you are being very pig-headed about the whole deal. You should
> have accepted the free help instead of saying "NOOO! You don't
> understand what I am asking."

You didn't, which is why I re-posted.

NOW, if you had SAID that StorageTek's FC-SCSI bridges are nothing more
than rebadged CrossRoads switches - as are HP's NSRs, then you'd have
said something useful.

> If I really wanted to, I could attach our "test" DS20 to our ESL9326
> (which is SAN-attached) and let you drive up to Milwaukee to set it in
> action. But now I don't feel like helping you anymore.

Awww...

> Why don't you just log a call with Colorado Springs and get it over
> with.

Be my guest. You'll likely find out how much they've learned from our
experiences over the course of the last two weeks.

BTW - you'll find out that THE *SINGULAR* person still at HP who has
*ANY* first-hand DCSC experience (especially new installs) is returning
from vacation on Monday. Our go-live is this weekend (tonight,
actually).

Good luck... 

-- 
David J. Dachtera
dba DJE Systems
http://www.djesys.com/
Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:
http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/