Re: Portents of VMS death
From: Bill Gunshannon (bill_at_gw5.cs.uofs.edu)
Date: 06/05/03
- Next message: JF Mezei: "Re: Portents of VMS death"
- Previous message: JF Mezei: "Re: Encompass Message: "Itanium: The Roadmap to the Future""
- In reply to: JF Mezei: "Re: Portents of VMS death"
- Next in thread: JF Mezei: "Re: Portents of VMS death"
- Reply: JF Mezei: "Re: Portents of VMS death"
- Reply: David Webb: "Re: Portents of VMS death"
- Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] [ attachment ]
Date: 5 Jun 2003 18:02:44 GMT
In article <3EDF72B0.7C01A77@istop.com>,
JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> writes:
> Bill Gunshannon wrote:
>> (or any University that I know of) lawyers. Even in the case of a
>> not-for-profit school like us the use would still be considered
>> commercial because we are a business.
>
> If the machines are used by faculty or school administrator, I agree with the
> above. They are using those machines as part of their jobs. (especially if
> machines are used to run the school).
>
> But if the machines are used by students to write assignments and/or generally
> muck around, then couldn't you find a way to see this as non-commercial use ?
Like I said, it isn't how you or I or any of us on c.o.v see it.
Education is a business, even if we are not-for-profit (I forget
the IRS classification) and that makes all use here commercial.
I have to buy licenses for all the billyware used by my faculty
members and by all the machines in the labs. The lack of money
for licenses or a valid, usable education license is what keeps
my PDP-11's (except for those running Ultrix-11 or BSD) from being
used. The same is true of my numerous VAXen and the one Alpha I
have on which I have no choice but to run FreeBSD or Linux.
What do you mean by "write assignments"? Surely you don't think
a student is going to choose EDT over MS Word for those term papers
they need to do. "Muck around"? Been out of school long? You
seem to think the students have all kinds of free time for playing.
Not likely. If the machines are not strongly integrated into real
courses, they will see no use at all. I could get them into probably
four or five courses right now, maybe more later. But it wouldn't
be easy. VMS is not a "general use OS" as most people see it.
It is not going to win without a lot of push from behind.
>
> Consider the following scenario: you provide the machines, but the students
> provide their hobbyist licences. Would this change your lawyer's view ?
You have no idea how universities work, do you? I have labs.
They belong to the University. I maintain them. that's the way
it works. If I have an AS2100 running in my server room, which
students Hobbyist License is loaded? Do I have to unload it and
load another when the next student wants to use the machine. And
to answer your last question, "no". We have had students want
their special software loaded onto machines in the lab and they
always promise to give me a copy of their "license". of course,
they also don't understand why I can't put that license on all
the machines in the lab. :-)
>
> In fairness, I agree that hobbyist in an educational shouldn't be seen as a
> long term solution.
It isn't even a short term solution, it is not doable. But that
doesn't preclude an educational license with all the same permissions
as the Hobbyist License.
> But I see the potential to abose those licences
> temporarily to show HP the true potential of a "real" educational programme.
> (eg: if you make it work wonders by cheating, then it becomes a lot easier to
> convince HP to setup a real edu programme.)
People have been "cheating" for years now on the PDP-11 OSes. the
result is there is no Hobbyist License and there likely never will
be. I also think this is what has kept me from being able to convince
anyone at Mentec to allow me any kind of an education grant either.
(I can't even get anyone at Mentec to talk to me officialy!!) The only
thing likely to be accomplished by "cheating" on the Hobbyist License
would be the end of the Hobbyist License. In any case, the University
would not allow it and I, personally, would not do it either.
bill
-- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include <std.disclaimer.h>
- Next message: JF Mezei: "Re: Portents of VMS death"
- Previous message: JF Mezei: "Re: Encompass Message: "Itanium: The Roadmap to the Future""
- In reply to: JF Mezei: "Re: Portents of VMS death"
- Next in thread: JF Mezei: "Re: Portents of VMS death"
- Reply: JF Mezei: "Re: Portents of VMS death"
- Reply: David Webb: "Re: Portents of VMS death"
- Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] [ attachment ]
Relevant Pages
|
