Re: Intel to chip away at Itanium prices <- or ... I want my cheap

From: Robert Klute (robert_klute_removethis_at_hp.com)
Date: 01/29/04 

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 02:13:36 GMT

On Wed, 28 Jan 2004 20:14:43 -0500, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>
wrote:

>
>"Robert Klute" <robert_klute_removethis@hp.com> wrote in message
>news:hd6g105g0ff74vmlucdfjauohvmklveq15@4ax.com...
>> On Wed, 28 Jan 2004 18:53:45 +0000, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy
>> <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote:
>>
>> >Robert Klute wrote:
>> >> On Wed, 28 Jan 2004 13:24:20 +0000, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy
>> >> <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>>The reasons for abandoning IA64 on the desktop are pretty obvious.
>> >>>
>> >>>1. Its too hot, some of the professional Computer gaming
>> >>> people may be happy to lug an external cooler arround to
>> >>> cope with the overclocked CPu they are using but most
>> >>> desktop users arn't.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> My zx2000 didn't come with an external cooler. Do I need to complain
>> >> that I didn't get one?
>> >>
>> >
>> >You zx2000 is hardly a desktop system its a deskside
>> >tower ~19x11x19 (inches) and quite a big one
>> >at that.
>> >
>> >It has a maximum power requirement of 650 watts with
>> >fans to match.
>> >
>> >Compare that with an HP D530 4x13x15 in
>> >maximum power requirement of 185 watts.
>>
>> Oh, let's compare it to another workstation, say the SunBlade 2000.
>
>Why? This discussion was about Itanic on the desktop, not Itanic
>workstations. Once you realize that, most of what you've said (and say
>here) becomes irrelevant.

Workstations are "desktop" systems. They are not office systems, but
they are desktop systems. It is where you find Itanium on the desktop.
The Itanium is a server processor, like PA-RISC, Alpha, SPARC, Power. It
should be compared to systems based on those chips. The only reason for
comparing it to IA-32 is that Intel makes both.

Andrew was comparing the size and max power consumption of a workstation
with a desktop system. Turns out his company's workstation turns out to
be of similar size and power consumption. Price is in the ball park,
depending on the configuration. If he wanted to compare an IA-32 based
HP system with similar function and features then he should have chosen
a system like the xw4100.

>> >The D530 with a 3.2 GHZ processor, 1 GB of RAM etc is
>> >$1300 and thats just shopping from HP, Dell are cheaper
>> >and its faster than your z2000 on Int by a wide margin.
>> >
>> >Integer SPECint
>> >1261 for the x86 vs 824
>>
>> I don't know where you got the 824 and 1444 numbers, I couldn't find
>> them on the spec site.
>
>Most browsers have a 'find on this page' feature that could help you (the
>scores are those achieved by a Dell workstation, using the 1.4 GHz, 1.5 MB
>L3 cache Itanic that Andrew described). There are other more useful and
>powerful ways to find interesting SPEC relationships (SPECMINE at ?Ace's? is
>one, though I've not used it much).

Unless everything runs in cache the memory controller chip makes a
difference. The Dell workstation a valid comparison point.

For example, the Dell 1.5 GHz SPECint Peak is 1099. 16% slower.
The Dell 1.5 GHz SPECfp Peak is 1875. 11% slower.
Whether that is chipset, compiler, or something, I don't know; but, it
does point out that using the Dell numbers is not valid.

>> SPECint Peak for the 1.5GHz zx6000 is 1315
>
>I suspect you'll find that using that version of the chip drives up the
>price noticeably.
>
>> SPECint Base for the 1.0GHz zx6000 is 807
>> SPECint Peak for the 1.2GHz SunBlade 2000 is 722
>
>Once again, this discussion relates to the ability of Itanic to replace x86
>in desktops: the performance of SPARCs has no relevance whatsoever here.

I, personally, wouldn't buy an Itanium, or a PA-RISC, or a SPARC, or a
Alpha, based system to replace an x86 based system unless it offered me
a feature that I couldn't get on the x86 based system. That could be an
OS I needed to run specific software, or memory requirements, or
reliability, or whatever.

>> >FP is better SPECfp
>> >1267 for the x86 vs 1444
>> >
>>
>> SPECfp Peak for the 1.5GHz zx6000 is 2106
>
>Same price comment as above.
>
>...
>
>> >And if you are looking at a desktop platform then having access
>> >to the x86 SW catalogue is very important.
>>
>>
>> But, I run Linux on my workstation. I have lots of applications
>> available to me.
>
>When Linux becomes the standard for desktops, that will have some relevance
>to this discussion.

The Itanium is used in a workstation. Linux is a common OS for
workstations.

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