Re: OT: why USA is a regime

From: David Froble (davef_at_tsoft-inc.com)
Date: 10/24/04 

Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 14:42:56 -0400

Bill Todd wrote:

> "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message
> news:417B8619.E674694B@teksavvy.com...
>
>>David Froble wrote:
>>
>>>You pass off many people tortured and killed with such ease. Yet let
>>>
> the US do
>
>>>any slight thing, and you're on them. You're a real hypocrite!
>>>
>>Some 3rd world dictatorship doesn't make any claims of being the perfect
>>example of democracy and upholder of human rights. The USA constantly
>>
> brags
>
>>about it, which is why when the USA started to disregard international
>>
> law,
>
>>disregard due legal process for persons in the USA, and make its own human
>>rights violations, this was a most important issue, especially since
>>
> citizens
>
>>of the USA were sheltered from this sad reality due to biased media and
>>
> government.
>
> Unfortunately, David seems to be turning out to be a lost cause: ignorant,
> arrogant, and opinionated, with no inclination whatsoever to get off his
> *** and actually become informed about matters before (or even after)
> mouthing off about them.

I don't claim to be all knowing. I can easily alter my perception when evidence
is presented that makes that a correct course. What's unfortunate is that
anyone who sees things a bit different than you is automatically a 'lost cause'.

> I had hoped for a lot better from him, but then I had hoped for a lot better
> from my country. We do, in fact, have the kind of government that we
> deserve, and my main regret is that the rest of the world must also pay a
> major part of the price of our having it.

Attributed to Bill G, Democracy, three wolves and a sheep voting on what's for
dinner. But, do you have any better ideas?

> I always hope that apparently fruitless discussions like this one might at
> least cause a bit of neural activity in silent observers whose brain cells
> haven't yet completely ossified, but lacking visible results it's often
> difficult to sustain the effort solely on faith.

Well, it's a bit tough when JF is totally irrational.

>
>>You have one week left to wake up and kick this authoritarian regime out.
>>
> You
>
>>are given lots of information. It is your choice to refuse to accept that
>>information. But the minute Bush is re-elected, it will be pointless to
>>
> talk
>
>>about the atrocities committed by the USA government sicne american
>>
> citizens
>
>>will have voted to support such actions.
>>
>
> While you have a great deal better acquaintance with the international
> situation than people like David do (and in many areas better than I have),
> some of the conclusions you draw aren't nearly as solid.
>
> There would be some (though regrettably few, and regrettably minor)
> differences between a Bush and a Kerry administration, but which one is
> elected will say very little about the American people as a whole, because
> it's already clear that *roughly* half of those who will bother to vote at
> all will be voting for Bush, and roughly the other half who will bother to
> vote at all will be voting for someone very reasonably characterizable as
> Bush Lite (a perhaps superficially kinder, gentler brand of neocon
> corporatist/imperialist, but also one who may be alarmingly more adept at
> selling such policies both at home and abroad).
>
> So while you may believe that which one is elected actually matters (I can't
> say that I do: I see Kerry as a bit of short-term relief that will likely
> make longer-term progress significantly more difficult, and Bush as a major
> short-term pain that would likely pave the way for real reform much more
> quickly, but the net result is close to a wash), the only way anyone could
> see the results as making a significant statement about the American people
> would be if the margin of victory were large or a dramatic third-party
> turnout occurred illustrating the (very proper) disgust of the electorate
> with *both* major-party candidates (having only something like 50% of those
> eligible bothering to vote at all suggests something of that sort, but
> seeing many of those who *do* bother to vote reject them explicitly would
> say something clearer).
>
> If you wake-up in the next 4 years
>
>>and realise how big a mistake you made, all we can say to you will be "we
>>
> told
>
>>you so, you refused to listen".
>>
>
> The last time Americans as a country were paying any real attention was 3
> decades ago or more. When they hear "I told you so" (and they deserve to
> hear it a lot), they just get annoyed.
>
> If Bush is elected next week, there's at least a chance that a lot of the
> people who voted for him will actually have the opportunity to realize how
> lousy a choice he was over the next few years (4, or less if the Democratic
> party has the balls to make a serious effort at impeachment, which, as I've
> said before, is the proper response to his activities rather than simply
> ushering him out the door with his golden parachute intact). If Kerry is
> elected, I fear that the people who voted for him will cling to their
> illusions for considerably longer (and that those who voted for Bush will do
> the same, not having had to live with the consequences of their support),
> and therefore that little real change will occur (our race toward the cliff
> may slow down a bit, but there's no indication that it will even come close
> to stopping, let alone reverse direction).

I seem to grasp your concept, but cannot imagine 4 more years of Bush. Nor do I
see the logic, unless you want a complete meltdown.

Dave 

-- 
David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450
Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596
DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com
170 Grimplin Road
Vanderbilt, PA  15486