Re: VAX Server 4000/200 not seeing its drive
From: Jim (turk162_at_hotmail.net)
Date: 11/25/04
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Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 22:27:33 -0500
"John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network> wrote in message
news:Y9u5VLJn4Av2@eisner.encompasserve.org...
> In article <W%Qod.142$6g1.127@fe07.lga>, "Jim" <turk162@hotmail.net>
writes:
> > Although I've read through the KA-660 CPU Maintenance Manual and the
VAX
> > 4000 Operation manual, I still can't figure out why SHOW DEV shows
no
> > hard drive on my VAX Server 4000/200.
> >
> > It has one Seagate ST4702N drive connected via ribbon to a half-size
> > controller card residing in the top half of slot 6 (BA215
backplane).
>
> That controller card is a third party controller card, and unless it
> emulates a Digital controller, will not be visible to the boot rom.
>
> > The controller card has very few markings; it has "Assy 210-00031"
> > etched along one edge and has a sticker on the ROM chip that bears
the
> > print "Viking QB A4.4". The only hardware configurable option on
the
> > card is a single row of four jumpers, all of which are "jumped".
>
> I would recommend a google search. You may get lucky.
I did get lucky. Google turned up an eBay auction with a photo very
close to the card. The caption said that it was a "TD Systems Viking".
I've sent an email to TD Systems asking for any info they might have.
A subsequent Dejanews search returned the most interesting posting from
1991 to this very newsgroup:
-- old message starts --
"Here at Fermilab, we have any number (i.e., too large to compute) of
systems with Qbus-to-SCSI adapters. We mostly use adapters from
Summus Computer or TD Systems (their Viking controllers). These
controllers make SCSI units 0-3 looks like MSCP disk devices and
SCSI units 4-7 like TMSCP tape devices. For disks we use many
varieties of Seagate Wren disks - Wren Vs (638 MB) and Wren VIIs
(1 GB) in greatest numbers - with Exabyte 8mm tape drives. We
have several such systems with just a Wren disk and 8mm tape drive
(yes, we can boot S/A Backup from the 8mm). We have tested
the Fujitsu 1.2 GB disk drive (model number escapes me) successfully
on these controllers."
-- old message ends --
The machine I'm working on has a Seagate 638M Wren drive and TWO
Fermilab asset tags! Needless to say, I've emailed the author on the
outside chance he still works at Fermilabs after 14 years.
> The only "Viking" q-bus SCSI card that I have seen required a third
> party driver to use. Storage on it was not bootable, and OpenVMS did
not
> supply a driver for it. It is sitting at home in my spare parts bin.
I sure hope that's not the case for this controller. I found another
potential problem in a 2002 posting:
-- old message starts --
"We used to buy third party boards from Trimarchi, Inc. and were
satisified
with them. One was a SCSI board by TD Systems, that works fine, but the
serial interface for configuring the board requires a special adapter to
tap 4 normally grounded lines off the SCSI bus and route them to a
10-pin
and 25-pin connecter on the adapter. We got the adapters from Trimarchi
as well. It is just a pain when having to add or format drives, which
we
have not had to do often."
-- old message ends --
Uh oh.
> Note: Some third party SCSI controllers are disk only, and some are
> tape only.
There is a TS Systems Viking that is tape only. But indications so far
are that this one does both.
> > From web searches, I gather that the controller card may need to be
> > configured. However, attempts to put it into maintenance mode don't
> > appear to do much (see below). At this point, I haven't been able
to
> > even determine what type of controller I'm dealing with.
>
> The maintenance command that you have issued is specific to a KFQSA
controller,
> which is a Q-BUS to DSSI controller. As your VAX Server 4000-200 has
a built
> in DSSI controller that is more efficient, unless you have more than 7
DSSI
> devices, there is no reason to use the KFQSA if you have one.
I've got no DSSI devices.
> You are aware that even though a DSSI interconnect looks a lot like
SCSI, and
> the connectors on the disks are interchangable, they are electrically
> incompatable and damage will likely result a SCSI device is connected
to
> a DSSI bus or the reverse.
No I wasn't. I really appreciate your pointing out that pitfall as I
was already wondering why the add-on controller was there with those
DSSI connectors sitting there unused!
> > I would greatly appreciate any help in identifying the controller
card
> > type, getting the drive on-line, or even a lead on where to find a
> > definitive FAQ/manual.
>
> So far I have found nothing. :-(
>
> I do recommend that in your google searches that you look for the
keywords
> "Hoffman" "qbus" and "serpentine" for information on configuring
devices on the
> q-bus.
Ah, good keywords. I've found about three interesting documents to help
further my VAX education.
> The position of cards in the q-bus is significant, as is identifying
the
> specific q-bus that is on the machine. Gaps are not allowed.
Hmmm. That may be another source of problems the SCSI card is in the
left-most slot, with three empty slots between it and the memory card.
I'll try moving it.
> The VAX Server 4000-200 was sold as an upgrade kit, it does not
identify
> what q-bus backplane that you have.
The label on backplane says: "LPWR 5017407-01 E1-P1 L1"
A label on the enclosure says: "BA214/BA215 BACKPLANE 5417408
70-25447-01 004 KA117Y1189"
> In configuring the q-bus cards, the settings for many of the cards
will
> depend on what other cards are in the system.
>
> And there is an added and not well documented gotcha for third party
disk
> controllers.
>
> Most q-bus controllers are bus priority 4. A large number of third
party disk
> and tape controllers are bus priority 5. Bus Priority 5 devices must
be
> electrically/physically closer to the CPU. Failure to heed that can
result
> in system crashes.
The CPU is in the right-most slot with the memory card immediately to
its left. Should a priority 5 controller come next or go inbetween the
memory and CPU card (I think I know that the answer is that nothing
should come between the CPU and its memory.)
> > I bought this wonderful machine and a hamfest last year and assume
that
> > the drive works but that the previous owner must have wiped it (it
spins
> > up and sounds like a drive should).
>
> > Here's a summary of what I know so far:
>
> >>>>show qbus
>
> "Show configuration" would probably be more useful.
When I do SHOW CONFIG, it returns "illegal command". Also when I do a
HELP to see what commands are valid,
SHOW CONFIG is not in the list. The list is in alphabetical order and
it should be just before SHOW CONTROLP, but here's what I get:
<snip>
SHOW BFLG
SHOW BOOT
SHOW CONTROLP
SHOW DEVICE
<snip>
> > Scan of Qbus I/O Space
> > -20001468 (772150) = A440 RQDX3/KDA50/RRD50/RQC25/KFQSA-DISK
> > -2000146A (772152) = 0B40
> > -20001940 (774500) = A440 TQK50/TQK70/TU81E/RV20/KFQSA-TAPE
> > -20001942 (774502) = 0B40
> > -20001F40 (777500) = 0020 IPCR
> >
>
> It shows a MSCP compatable disk controller and TMSCP compatible tape
> controller on the q-bus.
>
> In order to interpret the above, a listing of ALL cards that are
plugged
> into the q-bus is needed, and their exact posititions.
Slot 1 (right-most) has the CPU an KA660
Slot 2 has a M7622 memory card
Slot 3 is empty
Slot 4 is empty
Slot 5 is empty
Slot 6 has the TS Systems Viking SCSI controller
> Note that every card or board set has two names associated with it.
> One name is for the option and that covers the specific option. The
other name
> is a module name. An option may have multiple modules, or just one.
>
> Most of the discussions on line will deal with the option name, but
when you
> look at the cards to identify them, all you may find is the module
name.
>
> As there are still a lot of people using q-bus machines for business
or hobby
> use, you should be able to look up both numbers on line to identify
the cards.
I did find a summary listing and will scour it for matches to the cards.
> -John
> wb8tyw@qsl.network
> Personal Opinion Only
I really appreciate the detailed info. Thanks!
Jim
- Next message: Chris: "Re: AS200 machine check, D-cache parity error (long)"
- Previous message: Jim: "Re: VAX Server 4000/200 not seeing it's drive"
- In reply to: John E. Malmberg: "Re: VAX Server 4000/200 not seeing it's drive"
- Next in thread: David J Dachtera: "Re: VAX Server 4000/200 not seeing its drive"
- Reply: David J Dachtera: "Re: VAX Server 4000/200 not seeing its drive"
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