J F: Bush knows he is a criminal

From: Nomen Nescio (nobody_at_dizum.com)
Date: 12/12/04 

Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2004 19:50:03 +0100 (CET)

JF Mezei <jfmezei@vaxination.ca> trolled:

>Cyrus Afzali wrote:
>> Any country's guarantees vis a vis rights will almost always tilt more
>> toward protecting its own citizens. Nothing specific to the U.S.
>> there.
>
>Read your own constitution. Tell me how you can interpret the legal rights
>that are garanteed under yor constitution apply more to citizens than non
>citizens. They apply to PEOPLE. If you are within the legal jurisdiction of
>the USA, any human must be afforded the rights garanteed under your
>constitution. Your regime has ignored this and just conveniently said that
>only citizens are given rights.
>
>Consider the few cases of kidnapped humans held by americans who were
>transfered and given due legal process when it was realised they were US
>citizens, but those who were not US citziens were still denied due legal
>process and still held without charge.
>
>Consider the rights of police to detain anyone they suspect of having ties
>with terrorism. These are the exact same powers the USA were decrying the
>soviet regimes.
>
>> So don't be late -- that simple. If I'm driving a car with an expired
>> license, I'll be fined. I can't enter another country with an expired
>> passport. Life's really not that hard in many ways.
>
>
>You won't go to jail without right to call you lawyer and without being
>charged with a crime. People with legal papers in the USA were sent to jaim
>and treated as criminals because the USA instituted now paperwork requirements
>and someone decided there was a dot missing on an i. One of them was a senior
>VP at Oracle. Not exactly the "illegal alien" mexican low wage worker you
>would be thinking about.
>
>> I'm not saying jail treatment is necessary for things like that, only
>> that most of a person's problems can be avoided.
>
>Tell me how that scandinavian grand mother could have avoided jail by showing
>up at USA customs ? If her papers were not in order, she shoudl have been
>refused entry and shown to the next flight home, as was the case before the
>Bush regime put in the Patriot Act.
>
>> Personally, I don't
>> think we should be having many cross-border workers to begin with.
>
>Then tell your government to stop giving green cards to anyone. If you have a
>green card, a house, family and pay taxes etc, you shouldn't have to fear
>being sent to jail without valid reason.
>
>> If Canada wants to lavish free health care on their citizens, then our
>> GNP shouldn't help prop that up.
>
>Canadians who go to the USA don't help prop up our health care system.
>> That has nothing to do with this issue. He's not a criminal, only a
>> citizen of a country that no longer officially exists.
>
>He was refused entry into France for reason X. He was not sent to jail as he
>would have been had he arrived in the USA.
>
>> Enemy combattant actually does have a definition and that designation
>> must be specifically given.
>
>Bull***. Patriot act allows law enforcement to detain anyone they feel like
>detaining by applying various designations. That is the whole point of patriot
>act: being able to detain anyone they couldn't detail with due legal process
>as was the case in the past.
>
>> Even those people have rights, the only
>> thing that's majorly different is they can be tried in a military
>> court rather than a U.S. civilian court.
>
>They have no rights. Canadians who were detained in the USA were not allowed
>one phone call, were not granted legal representation and were not charged
>with anything. They did not have the right to a cell where lights are turned
>off at night. (technically, leaving lights on 7/24 is torture BTW).
>
>It isn't just Gantanamo where civil rights have been abused. It has happened
>inside the USA big time. And I am only speaking about those canadians that
>were detained, there are many many more stories of people of arab etnicity who
>were detained in similar ways.
>
>> Saddam did gas his own people and people in Iran. That's pretty much a
>> known. I don't approve of the operation against them and it ticks me
>> off that we ever backed that maniac in the first place.
>
>You didn't back him, you sold him those weapons. In fact, Rumsfeld and Bush
>Father arranged for those sales.
>
>And guess what: yes France had sold Saddam weapons. But that was in the 1970s,
>and when Saddam was looking for more firepower to attack Iran, he went to the
>USA where he met Rumsfeld and company who saw the opportunity to have Iraq hit
>Iran with all sorts of nasty stuff and supported Hussein at which point France
>stopped selling weapons and it was the USA that got the contract (complete
>with staellite intelligence on whare to hit Iran).
>
>> Sanctions? Of what? We pay a ton of the freight for the U.N. And
>> again, most of the countries that might bitch have sure as hell had
>> their share of dirty laundry.
>
>
>Iraq also paid dues to the UN as a member. Yet it got sanctions big time for
>invading Kuwait. The USA, and in fact no country, can be above the law. Right
>now, because of its VETO at the UN, the USA cannot be punisghed for war
>crimes, torture, violation of human rights etc.
>
>Note how Bush knows that he is a criminal since he refuses to acknowledge the
>ICC because he doesn't want to be put where he belongs: next to Milosovich,
>Hittler and others.
>
>Note that the ICC exists only for countries that refuse to try their leaders
>for war crimes. And Since, instead of impeaching the war criminal, americans
>re-elected a criminal, the ICC then becomes more relevant because it is clear
>that internal mechanisms will not try and punish Bush and hiw cabinet for war
>crimes, as well as all the lies to the congress and american public.
>
>
>> You act as if Canada was bankrupted by allowing planes to land there
>> on 9/11.
>
>Not because of allowing them to land and hosting 30,000 passengers. But
>because of the closing of air space which hurt airlines to a point where some
>went under very quickly.
>
>> And how many did you send? How much money did you send? Friendly fire
>> is regrettable and should be punished, but that's beside the point and
>> something that will happen in any conflict.
>
>But when we hear about USA accusing Canada of not helping out, it hurts
>because you don't even know we hepped big time and also had sacrifices.
>
>> How many people did France sent? Germany? Face it, after the U.S. and
>> England, everyone else's "contribution" pales in comparison.
>
>Wrong. For afghanistan, it was a large multinational force. Sanctioned by UN.
>It is Iraq where the USA is all alone with the UK and a few token troups from
>bribed countries.
>
>> As far as enriching its pockets with Iraqi trade, nobody comes close
>> to France.
>
>You got it wrong. Selling cars in Iraq fills pockets of Renault, Citroen etc,
>not the iraqi pockets.
>
>> Those sanctions were U.N. based, not just an act of the U.S.
>
>Correct. the 1990s sanctions on Iraq were UN sanctions, and only the UN could
>decide to act on them.
>
>> The price of oil isn't something that the U.S. controls. So you can't
>> blame us for that situation.
>
>Yes. As the largest consumer of oil, as as the country that refuses to sign up
>to treaties to become more energy efficient, the USa not only contributes to
>higher oil consumption, but laos cannot use its power to get developing
>nations such as China and India to also cleanup their pollutionand oil
>consumption problems.
>
>> So the billions upon billions that we're spending to rebuild the place
>> is imaginary? News to me.
>
>The billions and billions are going to feed your army and to build new bombs
>to drop on Fallujah. Not much as gone to actual reconstruction of all the
>stuff you guys destroyed with your weapons of mass destruction.
>
>Red Cross has issued a statement that Falluja is uninhabitable because of too
>much physical destruction of infrastructure.

If you care so much, why aren't you in Falluja volunteering your
humanitarian services?

Oh, I see, you'd rather rant 24/7 on usenet from the comfort of your
own dungeon.

JF, how many years has it been since you last saw sunlight?