Re: Hp Technology forum (New Orleans sept 12-15)

From: AEF (spamsink2001_at_yahoo.com)
Date: 09/03/05 

Date: 3 Sep 2005 11:35:09 -0700

JF Mezei wrote:
> AEF wrote:
> > Uh, if you're still comparing him to Giuliani, what did he do to aid
> > any evacuation? The subways were ordered to stop. Period.
>
> I wasn't refering to general evacuation skills, just general leadership
> abilities (from the viewer's point of view). Guiliani presented himself
> as someone in control, inspired confidence. The New Orleans mayor seems
> to be powerless and doesn't present himself as somone capable of saving
> the city.
>
> It could simply be that Guiliani is much more media savvy and hence
> appears much better to TV viewers. Bit that is still a very important
> quality required of a leader.

1.) The situations are not comparable. Imagine all of Manhattan flooded
with people trapped on the roofs without food, water, and electricity.

2.) Giuliani is exceptional. It is unreasonable to expect all mayors to
be like him.

>
>
> > and/or took ferries. These were people at work trying to get home. In
> > NO you have people trapped by flood waters on the roofs of their homes
> > trying to get out, but have no home to go to once they get out, if they
> > get out.
>
> From a mayor's point of view, he has a role to inform his constituents
> via the media etc on what is being done and when it is being done.
> Right now, it seems that there are a gazillion sources of information
> coming from various government agencies, so it doesn't provide the
> impression that the mayor is in control.

Not being in NO you are merely speculating. People trapped on roofs
without water, food, or electricity don't have much to go on. What do
you expect the mayor to do? Drop poratble radios from heilcopters?
Should he get a row boat and a megaphone to supply information?

>
>
> > Many people could walk to working transportation on 9/11. People in New
> > Orleans are trapped on their roofs or fighting each other for food and
> > water.
>
> But the media don't mention the portions of NO which are not flooded.
> Are there people there getting any food/water ? Are they getting any
> policing ?

???

>
>
> > And just how is he going to get all these things running when they're
> > covered by feet of water that came from levees that broke?
>
> Convention centre, from the look of it, was not on a flooded area.
>
> And even if flooded, helicopters can bring food, water and porable
> toilets, generators, medical supplies, and some authority with working
> communications device (sat phone, walky talky etc). This was not done
> for days.

I think you underestimate the magnitude of the situation.

>
> > Do you
> > expect his police to swim to the levees with sandbags on their backs?
>
> Since this is a VMS group and disaster recovery is a hot topic, I would
> expect the city might have had levee repair "kits" strategically located
> near the levees, perhaps already on barges during hurricane season.
> Interesting that they are bringing the bags one by one by helicopter
> when the canal seems to be navigable.

The city was unprepared. So what? We weren't prepared for 9/11? So
what? What is your point (try to keep it to less than 250 words
please!)

> > I thought pretty much nothing was working.
>
> That is what the media is making it look like. However, I have read that
> there is telephone service in some of the industrial areas, notably
> Michoud, where the make the ETs). NASA's Stennis also has telephone
> service. (possibly via satellite links). The airport is operational,
> they have power, ventilation. Generators can be provided too.

Obviously that's not enough. "Generators can be provided too". That's a
little to vague to be of much worth. That's like saying, "Water can be
pumped out. Levees can be fixed."

>
>
> If you look at the satellite images,
> http://www.digitalglobe.com/images/katrina/new_orleans_msi_aug31_2005_dg.jpg
>
> you'll see that west of one of the canal, it is dry. (but they don't
> show much of it since it is not of interest to news media who don't
> report on undamaged sections of the city).
>
>
> yes, the flooded area is large. But the picture doesn't show how much of
> that area is covered with a few cm of water versus metres of water. Just
> that one picture does show dry areas around new orleans.
>
>
> Remember that the media hadn't even bothered to visit the convention
> centre. They have definitely not gone to every area of the city to
> report what works and what doesn't. If they focus on the central
> (flooded) portion, then of course, they will have mobility problems.
>
> It is quite possible that areas west of the cana are functioning very
> well with some of the people who sayed living a fairly normal life
> (relatively) but might need food supplies. We don't know because the
> media aren't reporting.

Well, if we don't know there isn't much to say about it.

>
>
> When we have the ice storm in Montreal in 1998, even on radio, we heard
> regular reports from Hydro Québec on what parts of southern québec
> worked and didn't work, and which regions would require much more time
> to restore than others. And we knew that even portions that had power
> inside of montreal were are risk of power failures due to load shedding.
> The subways system had all escalators shut down to save power, and
> there were periods where portions of the subway were shutdown to save
> power.

Again, apples and oranges. Acutally, mice and elephants. No comparison.

>
> For new orleans, they aren't reporting on regions, they are just saying
> that all fo its is flooded/dead. The media were reluctant to bring
> reporters to the airport since they woudl be shoring portiosn of the
> city that are working and that would diminish the sensationalism of the reporting.

Fine. Maybe a small portion of the city is okay. So what?

> The problem is that when politicians rely on sensationalistic media
> reports, they make decisions which may or may not be right. If the media
> say that all of NO is flooded, then of course the mayor will call for
> total evacuation. But if they media were to rteport that there are large
> sectiosn west fo the canal which are not flooded, including parks X Y
> and Z, perhaps decisions to evacuate (post hurricane) might have been
> different sicn it might have been possible to setup tent cities in those areas.

Again you conclude much based on very little.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Hp Technology forum (New Orleans sept 12-15)
    ... I wasn't refering to general evacuation skills, ... It could simply be that Guiliani is much more media savvy and hence ... For new orleans, they aren't reporting on regions, they are just saying ... that all fo its is flooded/dead. ...
    (comp.os.vms)
  • Re: Braindead Babucracy - Gujarat flooding is a man-made disaster.
    ... even natural disasters? ... media bothers to look around - so why not view any lapse and failure as ... water or electricity: ... Department started releasing 8 to 10 lakh cusecs of water from the ...
    (soc.culture.indian)
  • Re: Palin: Let Me Get This Straight...
    ... stream media. ... mr dude (I am your brain on drugs) ... allegedly turned water into wine. ... If there had been no alcoholic beverages in antiquity or in the Dark Ages, ...
    (alt.sports.football.pro.ne-patriots)
  • Re: Palin: Let Me Get This Straight...
    ... stream media. ... mr dude (I am your brain on drugs) ... allegedly turned water into wine. ... If there had been no alcoholic beverages in antiquity or in the Dark Ages, ...
    (alt.sports.football.pro.ne-patriots)
  • Re: Water Changing Overkills
    ... Water changes are important, so is how you perform them. ... organic waste via vacuuming is important (carefull with vacuuming ... clean the filter media when the water behind the media gets too high ... just pull the frame and replace with another frame ...
    (rec.aquaria.freshwater.misc)