RE: Is OpenVMS certified yet for 64-way Hard partitions (GS1280 M64).


-----Original Message-----
From: David J. Dachtera [mailto:djesys.nospam@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: April 14, 2006 11:51 PM
To: Info-VAX@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Is OpenVMS certified yet for 64-way Hard
partitions (GS1280 M64).


[snip..]


...except that due to gov't certification requirements, and the time
required to acieve them, healthcare tends to be the furthest back.


So, the issue is not that Cerner is behind on OS versions, but rather is
handcuffed because of Govt regulations? That simply tells me that Cerner
is doing what it needs to do in terms of ensuring compliance.

Consider that the last sale dates for Alpha are just
around the corner
and Cerner has yet to certify I64.


Again, do you think Cerner might need a DB being available on the
platform before it certs its application or should it go
ahead without
it?

Say, "middleware".


Perhaps I do not understand the environment as well as you (I do not
work day-to-day in Cerner environment), but my understanding is that
most of the Cerner servers are either big AIX or big OpenVMS servers
(with Citrix front ends as I recall), are you saying that they should
add new servers to the mix to run the middleware independently of the
back end servers?

[remember that network IO adds exponential delays to the overall
solution as compared to direct IO's and IO intensive app's can take a
major overall performance hit when slicing into many different "network
layers".

Remember the Govt certification effort on all of this.

Again, you obviously work in this environment, so help me understand
what you are positioning when you say "middleware".

In general terms, I start to get nervous twitches when people start
talking about breaking up a host based, extremely intensive IO
application into multiple network layers where every network IO adds
considerable latency into the overall solution.

This is reason why SAP has been promoting return to middleware running
on the same server as the DB server for IO intensive consolidation
initiatives. IT layers consolidation.


I wonder if the availability of Oracle 10G on IA64 had
any impact on
that?

Arguable, but unlikely. Cerner's disenchantment with
VMS/HP is fast
becoming the stuff of legend.

And before anyone jumps on Oracle, keep in mind that they
also had to
get the 10G Alpha release out the door as well.

Here is a question for you - has Cerner cert'ed Oracle 10G
yet on any
platform? What about RAC? [Perhaps they have, but I am
interested to
confirm]

9i-RAC, yes. We're puuting that in soon. 10g, doubtful.


Not surprising, most Customers are still running Oracle 9i or 8i.


So, if putting in Oracle 9i RAC, and assuming it scales
even reasonably
well, is this not a better solution to your problem that putting all
your egg's in one large basket?

No - see the prior discussion of licensing costs.


Ah, so the issue is not technical, but a cost issue?

Lets not mix the arguments - is it a technical or cost issue you are
concerned with?

Whether you use 2 x 32CPU servers or 1 64CPU server, since Oracle
charges per CPU, the base Oracle costs should be the same. What is
different is that Oracle RAC adds something like 25-50% of additional
per cpu license cost, but then you also have the ability to shutdown
servers with zero impact on application availability, so there is some
additional benefits over a hot-cold (active-passive) server model.

[snip...]

As others have stated, the 64CPU cert on OpenVMS Alpha
can likely be
done, but it will require some firm business justifications and
commitment from real Customers.

How 'bout, "staying in business"? Is that considered a
"justification"?

--

Absolutely. However, doing expensive testing when you have
no Customers
or ISV's willing to commit to a purchase is a great way to
hasten that
point.

...unless your competition is already doing it which case you
either get
with the program or GTFO of the way.

Most vendors (not just HP) are well beyond the techie
concept of "build
it and they will come" attitudes - that went out many years ago.

...along with the platforms that were sold that way during
their heyday.
When the business/sales model changed and put the cart before
the horse,
the market evaporated, as we have seen - and continue to see
- with VMS
and Alpha.


Ok, lets play devil's advocate for a moment. Lets say HP goes through
all of the effort to certify 64CPU's with no commitments from anyone.
Just ignores Cerner, Oracle and Govt's formal overall solution cert
requirements.

HP eats the cert cost with the techie vision of "build it and they will
come ..".

Then, continuing the what-if scenario, Cerner comes out and says "the
RAC model licensing costs have been ironed out and due to the higher
availability model, we recommend our Customers not buy the 64CPU
active-passive model, but rather adopt the higher availability 2 x 32CPU
server active-active model".

So, should HP just say "oh well .. And eat the cost?

Lets be clear - no vendor is going to make a large certification effort
without some level of commitment from its target Customers or Partners.
That is simply not a good business practice.

Regards

Kerry Main
Senior Consultant
HP Services Canada
Voice: 613-592-4660
Fax: 613-591-4477
kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom
(remove the DOT's and AT)

OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works.


.

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