Re: HP announces new Integrity servers
- From: "Andrew" <andrew_harrison@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: 28 Sep 2006 06:36:24 -0700
Main, Kerry wrote:
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Todd [mailto:billtodd@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: September 19, 2006 1:04 PM
To: Info-VAX@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: HP announces new Integrity servers
Main, Kerry wrote:
issues of-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Todd [mailto:billtodd@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: September 14, 2006 7:03 PM
To: Info-VAX@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: HP announces new Integrity servers
Main, Kerry wrote:
...
Imho, consolidating HW is one small piece, but unless you can
consolidate OS instances, you are not addressing the real
asking exactlyFTE counts - the biggest slice of the IT budget pie.You're still stuck in Buzzword Heaven, Kerry. I keep
their hardware*how* Itanic differs in this regard from x86-64 (since
including OSs, isfeatures are comparable and the available software,
around thatpretty much the same on each of them - except that there's so much
*more* software available on x86), and you keep dancing
question and waving your hands vigorously.
The difference is the overall package.
*What* difference, dammit?
If a company wants to reduce the biggest slice of their IT costs
(headcount), then they need to look closely at how they can do that. If
you have an application that only runs on Windows/Linux, it is extremely
difficult to do this as you can consolidate HW and save a few $'s, but
that does not reduce your FTE requirements. The one-app, one server
culture, combined with the high number of *monthly* security patches
makes it almost impossible to do this.
So, the question is "can a company afford to continue with the one-app,
one server with monthly security patch strategy if they are really
serious about reducing their largest piece of the IT budget? At what
point do they say "enough is enough?"
Higher end OS's like OpenVMS hve a much more stable Application stacking
environment and culture. With the possible exception of some kind of
real time manufacturing app, how many OpenVMS ISV's would tell an
OpenVMS Customer they need a dedicated server?
With the Wintel on any platform,
you have many FTE`s maintaining many OS instances, so even with
consolidation using VMware or Virtual Server, you still have a very
high FTE counts - the biggest sclice of the IT budget.
So what? That's not a difference between the Itanic platform and the
x86-64 platform, that's a difference between running Windows
(whether on
x86-64 or on Itanic) and running some more competent OS (whether on
x86-64 or on Itanic).
*So it's no difference between x86-64 and Itanic at all*, and
you've tried to dodge the question yet again.
See ealier response - I am not talking about low level HW stuff. I am
talking about the HW + OS + culture + security + stacking + stability
environment as a package. If they choose x86 whatever, their only real
options are Linux or Windows and the one-app one server culture. Yes BSD
is available, but for whatever reason, that just does not come up much
in a business environment.
Yes, Solaris is also available, but as I stated earlier, every Solaris
Customer I have talked to has stated that if they were changing
platforms, it was moving Solaris to Linux. If they were staying on
Solaris to consolidate, they were staying with higher end SPARC servers.
It would appear that you havn't talked to very many Solaris customers
and you certainly havn't talked to many in Financial services.
I say this because our experience is the reverse of your assertion. A
significant number of customers including two of the largest European
Banks one of which is in the top 5 largest banks worldwide are running
Solaris on x86 and one of these banks is doing this instead of running
Linux on x86 it is their mid tier OS of choice. Neither are going to
wholesale migrate from Linux to Solaris but new platforms will be
Solaris on x86 unless the apps are not available for Solaris.
You only have to look at the amount of pressure exerted on ISV's such
as IBM by their largest customers to get them to support Solaris x86 to
understand that many of the major corporates some of which were early
Linux adopters are now pursuing a Solaris x86 strategy.
IBM didn't port Websphere and the rest of their software stack to
Solaris x86 because they felt good about the platform, they did so
because big customers were hitting them with blunt objects.
The reality is that Solaris 10 is the hot new kid on the block, it
contains a number of "cool" new technologies at a time when Linux
development seems to have slowed down and don't mistake the power of
"cool" its largely what got Linux to the place it is now.
Underneath the Solaris 10 hype the new stuff like Dtrace/SMF actually
does deliver unique functionality to customers. How often does a tool
like Dtrace win the WSJ's technology product of the year, not a DVD
recorder or a HDTV or a fab new gadget or a new medical technology but
a core OS monitoring tool.
I fully understand why you want to demote Solaris out of the x86
platorm space, your argument hinges on it not being usefull. The
reality is that the customers have already started voting with their
feet.
regards
Andrew Harrison
run more
Yes, there are more aplications on Windows, but you can not
than one in any single instance (technical, culture and ISV supportmaintain these.
issues), hence high OS instances and high FTE counts to
Just think of the monthly security patches and all of theassociated
pain these have on all of these many OS instances.
With App stacking on OS`s like OpenVMS, you can get away with much
reduced FTE counts from an Operations perspective.
And Solaris on x86-64 offers exactly the same advantage. So,
once again, there's no beneficial difference (at least
according to the philosophy advanced in the article which you
promoted - i.e., that Solaris = HP-UX = VMS = OS/400...) to
buying a ticket on Itanic.
a business
C'mon: surely you can come up with *something* significant
(other than VMS per se, which is only an unfortunate quirk of
fate that the article you directed us to pay heed to
considers irrelevant in today's IT
climate) that Itanic can offer and x86-64 platforms cannot.
The point of the article was emphasizing looking at IT from
perspective and not low level HW.
And (surprise, surprise) once again we get no answer to the direct
question about what significant advantage Itanic can offer
that x86-64
cannot.
Already answered.
[snip..]
Kerry Main
Senior Consultant
HP Services Canada
Voice: 613-592-4660
Fax: 613-591-4477
kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom
(remove the DOT's and AT)
OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works.
.
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