RE: OpenVMS - When downtime is not an option
- From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@xxxxxx>
- Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 00:02:53 -0400
-----Original Message-----
From: bill@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:bill@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Bill Gunshannon
Sent: June 27, 2007 8:33 AM
To: Info-VAX@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: OpenVMS - When downtime is not an option
[snip...]
[snip...]If Windows server consolidation were really really taken to thelimit,
you might find Windows has a small presence in the real data centrestheir work.
because like for unix and vms and MVS, they'd have one box to do
If Windows were consolidated at the rate of 10:1 it would still
outnumber
VMS by at least 100:1. People here really need to face reality.
Windows
is not as bad as you would like to think. Just because a bunch of
home
machines (mostly running the original Windows install they came with)
get
hacked doesn't mean that the boxes in the datacenter are that easy to
break.
bill
Bill,
What upsets readers on this list is when people like you make statements
like "Windows is not as bad as people here state that it is" when in
fact many of the readers here manage mission critical environments and
the concept of testing applications against *monthly* security patches
released by the host vendor is just plain ludicrous.
Readers here take security patches seriously and ensure they get applied
asap. This might happen once or twice every few years with OpenVMS.
Could be better? Possibly, but 5-20 security patches every month with
Linux and Windows?
Then folks like you state "Windows can do the same job as OpenVMS.."
I deal with Windows, UNIX and OpenVMS environments and during
consolidation engagements talk all the time to Operations / Apps groups
and their managers about their major challenges... getting Windows
servers and the associated huge management issues under control is by
far the absolute biggest issue raised by these groups. When looking at
server consolidation, the number of Wintel server consolidation targets
is usually something like 70-80% Wintel as the primary focus today.
The readers here on this newsgroup are not from the "just reboot it"
stream of managing IT. When a problem occurs on OpenVMS, it is usually
thoroughly analyzed to ensure it does not happen again. Detailed
register information is available in system error logs so you can decode
which bits are set in which device registers. This provides one with the
ability to properly troubleshoot a problem down to a bus or device
level.
I am sorry if it bothers you, but you seem to be unique in not having
the same challenges in operationally managing large numbers of Wintel
servers as most other med to large Customers today. It is not to say IT
is not that important in a University environment (I know it is), but it
just does not compare to many mission critical environments in private
industry today (e.g. OpenVMS lottery I was at a number of weeks here in
Canada measured down time during bigger pots at $1.5M/hr.)
Check this out for what challenges the real world is facing today:
http://www.vista-control.com/itanium_success.htm
"Los Alamos, February 15th. 2007 After implementing mission-critical
systems on Windows-based computers for many years, a customer
experienced a virus in one of these systems that shut down production
for two days while the infected systems were diagnosed, restored and
tested. The impact was that plant production was severely impacted at no
small cost. Despite internal opposition because of the established
standard, Vsystem on HP Itanium servers running OpenVMS was chosen for
the next system to be replaced."
Another major issue - The reality is that the plain fact is that the
most common method of troubleshooting Windows servers today is to simply
reboot it. Even those who have experience with other platforms look at
Windows event logs and find minimal information beyond a basic cryptic
message (e.g. sample error - scsi error xxxx0906, which means not a
whole lot if you have 4 or 5 different scsi devices on 2 or 3 different
SCSI buses). This type of error means they will likely have to just
reboot the server.
When the folks here state Windows servers do not have the same bullet
proof operational capabilities of OpenVMS, they are usually talking from
experience and dealing with OpenVMS and "hardened" Wintel server
environments.
It is not OS religion that drives the "Windows can not match OpenVMS"
statements in this newsgroup, but rather a form of educating the less
enlightened who do not really understand mission critical support
requirements.
Unfortunately, sometimes it is like talking to teenagers - "talk to the
hand..". These "kids" are just going to have to go out and experience
for themselves what those with more experience tried to tell them in the
first place.
Regards
Kerry Main
Senior Consultant
HP Services Canada
Voice: 613-592-4660
Fax: 613-591-4477
kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom
(remove the DOT's and AT)
OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works.
.
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