Re: Here's one for Bob (hope it makes your head spin)

In article <7_zDi.246902$dA7.32966@xxxxxxxxxxxx>, Ron Johnson <ron.l.johnson@xxxxxxx> writes:
On 09/05/07 08:08, david20@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
In article <1188944683.389501.295990@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, ultradwc@xxxxxxxxx writes:
On Sep 4, 4:50 pm, koeh...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Bob
Koehler) wrote:
In article <1188926008.865710.82...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, ultra...@xxxxxxxxx writes:

" He who is the Glory of Israel does not lie or change his mind; for
he is not a man, that he should change his mind."
But he did change his mind. He sent his only son to implement the
changes.
no He did not ... that was planned all along ...

God knows the future ... read revelation and Daniel
and other prophecies and they are happening right
now before your very eyes ...

If he knows the future (which he obviously should being omniscient) then
everything is predetermined and hence our free-will is an illusion.

Not true.

"Predetermined" implies a consciously-created pre-set plan of action.

No it doesn't. For all I know the future Universe is totally predetermined
(and we have no free will but just an illusion of free will) but that doesn't
imply that God or any other entity consciously created a plan of how the
Universe will unfold. The predetermination would come from the initial
conditions and laws of the Universe.
(For the purposes of this discussion i'm ignoring the complexities about
pre-determination introduced by our poor understanding of the meaning of
Quantum theory and treating the Universe as a classical system).




David Webb
Security team leader
CCSS
Middlesex University
Knowing what will happen in the future does not imply that "you"
*planned* for it to happen that way.

But then all God's actions must also be predetermined which means he has no
free-will and hence is not omnipotent.
(One way out of this impasse might be to suppose that God could see all
possible futures and could then choose between them by choosing or not choosing
to act at certain points in History. But then surely there must be a "best"
future for God's plans hence why would he do anything except instigate that
future which being able to see all possible futures he would have seen from the
beginning. Hence once again God's actions would be predetermined by his desire
for the best possible outcome and hence he would again have no free-will.)

--
Ron Johnson, Jr.
Jefferson LA USA

Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day.
Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good!
.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Heres one for Bob (hope it makes your head spin)
    ... But he did change his mind. ... The predetermination would come from the initial ... conditions and laws of the Universe. ... Quantum theory and treating the Universe as a classical system). ...
    (comp.os.vms)
  • Re: Heres one for Bob (hope it makes your head spin)
    ... But he did change his mind. ... The predetermination would come from the initial ... conditions and laws of the Universe. ... An intellect which at a certain moment would know all ...
    (comp.os.vms)
  • Re: Heres one for Bob (hope it makes your head spin)
    ... But he did change his mind. ... The predetermination would come from the initial ... conditions and laws of the Universe. ... Which would then be part of our "preset plan of action" and the result ...
    (comp.os.vms)
  • Re: Heres one for Bob (hope it makes your head spin)
    ... But he did change his mind. ... The predetermination would come from the initial ... conditions and laws of the Universe. ... An intellect which at a certain moment would know all ...
    (comp.os.vms)
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