Re: Here's one for Bob (hope it makes your head spin)

On Sep 6, 11:00 am, davi...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
In article <7_zDi.246902$dA7.32...@xxxxxxxxxxxx>, Ron Johnson <ron.l.john...@xxxxxxx> writes:
On 09/05/07 08:08, davi...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
In article <1188944683.389501.295...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, ultra...@xxxxxxxxx writes:
On Sep 4, 4:50 pm, koeh...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Bob
Koehler) wrote:
In article <1188926008.865710.82...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, ultra...@xxxxxxxxx writes:

" He who is the Glory of Israel does not lie or change his mind; for
he is not a man, that he should change his mind."
But he did change his mind. He sent his only son to implement the
changes.
no He did not ... that was planned all along ...

God knows the future ... read revelation and Daniel
and other prophecies and they are happening right
now before your very eyes ...

If he knows the future (which he obviously should being omniscient) then
everything is predetermined and hence our free-will is an illusion.

Not true.

"Predetermined" implies a consciously-created pre-set plan of action.

No it doesn't. For all I know the future Universe is totally predetermined
(and we have no free will but just an illusion of free will) but that doesn't
imply that God or any other entity consciously created a plan of how the
Universe will unfold. The predetermination would come from the initial
conditions and laws of the Universe.
(For the purposes of this discussion i'm ignoring the complexities about
pre-determination introduced by our poor understanding of the meaning of
Quantum theory and treating the Universe as a classical system).


Hoping also to not reenter the QM debate, which is as fruitless as
this one, I whole-heartedly agree with you.

Whether there is a God-being or not who has cast the die, the near
infinite number of past universal events that has brought us to now is
beyond comprehension; as is what effect the convergence of their
seemingly disparate reactions now might have upon the future.

Though "Free will" may be an illusion, the illusion is so grand that
it might as well be real.

==============
An Agnostic's Prayer for Everyone:
"God protect us from those who hear Your voice."

.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Heres one for Bob (hope it makes your head spin)
    ... But he did change his mind. ... The predetermination would come from the initial ... conditions and laws of the Universe. ... Quantum theory and treating the Universe as a classical system). ...
    (comp.os.vms)
  • Re: Heres one for Bob (hope it makes your head spin)
    ... But he did change his mind. ... The predetermination would come from the initial ... conditions and laws of the Universe. ... An intellect which at a certain moment would know all ...
    (comp.os.vms)
  • Re: Heres one for Bob (hope it makes your head spin)
    ... But he did change his mind. ... The predetermination would come from the initial ... conditions and laws of the Universe. ... Which would then be part of our "preset plan of action" and the result ...
    (comp.os.vms)
  • Re: Heres one for Bob (hope it makes your head spin)
    ... But he did change his mind. ... The predetermination would come from the initial ... conditions and laws of the Universe. ... An intellect which at a certain moment would know all ...
    (comp.os.vms)
  • Re: Heres one for Bob (hope it makes your head spin)
    ... But he did change his mind. ... everything is predetermined and hence our free-will is an illusion. ... For all I know the future Universe is totally predetermined ... The predetermination would come from the initial ...
    (comp.os.vms)