Re: Here's one for Bob (hope it makes your head spin)

On Sep 6, 1:21 pm, Ron Johnson <ron.l.john...@xxxxxxx> wrote:
On 09/06/07 11:00, davi...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:



In article <7_zDi.246902$dA7.32...@xxxxxxxxxxxx>, Ron Johnson <ron.l.john...@xxxxxxx> writes:
On 09/05/07 08:08, davi...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
In article <1188944683.389501.295...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, ultra...@xxxxxxxxx writes:
On Sep 4, 4:50 pm, koeh...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Bob
Koehler) wrote:
In article <1188926008.865710.82...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, ultra...@xxxxxxxxx writes:

" He who is the Glory of Israel does not lie or change his mind; for
he is not a man, that he should change his mind."
But he did change his mind. He sent his only son to implement the
changes.
no He did not ... that was planned all along ...

God knows the future ... read revelation and Daniel
and other prophecies and they are happening right
now before your very eyes ...

If he knows the future (which he obviously should being omniscient) then
everything is predetermined and hence our free-will is an illusion.
Not true.

"Predetermined" implies a consciously-created pre-set plan of action.

No it doesn't.

And I disagree.

$ dict predetermined
3 definitions found

From The Collaborative International Dictionary of English v.0.48
[gcide]:

Predetermine \Pre`de*ter"mine\, v. t. [imp. & p. p.
{Predetermined}; p. pr. & vb. n. {Predermining}.] [Pref. pre-
+ determine: cf. F. pr['e]d['e]terminer.]
1. To determine (something) beforehand. --Sir M. Hale.
[1913 Webster]

2. To doom by previous decree; to foredoom.
[1913 Webster]

From WordNet (r) 2.1 (2005) [wn]:

predetermined
adj 1: set in advance; "a preset plan of action"; "at a
predetermined time" [syn: {preset}, {predetermined}]

For all I know the future Universe is totally predetermined
(and we have no free will but just an illusion of free will) but that doesn't
imply that God or any other entity consciously created a plan of how the
Universe will unfold. The predetermination would come from the initial
conditions and laws of the Universe.
(For the purposes of this discussion i'm ignoring the complexities about
pre-determination introduced by our poor understanding of the meaning of
Quantum theory and treating the Universe as a classical system).

I just totally disagree with that meaning of predetermined.

For example: the end-result of computer simulations are not
predetermined before the sim is run.


The conclusion of the sim will be shown to have resulted from our
"preset plan of action" whether that plan was sound or flawed. The
result was "foredoomed." It was "set in advance" and we can trace the
logic back to the beginning and see how the result was obtained.

What's your disagreement? That we didn't know the result in advance?
The definition does not require us to read the future, only the past.

.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Heres one for Bob (hope it makes your head spin)
    ... But he did change his mind. ... The predetermination would come from the initial ... conditions and laws of the Universe. ... Quantum theory and treating the Universe as a classical system). ...
    (comp.os.vms)
  • Re: Heres one for Bob (hope it makes your head spin)
    ... But he did change his mind. ... The predetermination would come from the initial ... conditions and laws of the Universe. ... An intellect which at a certain moment would know all ...
    (comp.os.vms)
  • Re: Heres one for Bob (hope it makes your head spin)
    ... But he did change his mind. ... The predetermination would come from the initial ... conditions and laws of the Universe. ... Which would then be part of our "preset plan of action" and the result ...
    (comp.os.vms)
  • Re: Heres one for Bob (hope it makes your head spin)
    ... But he did change his mind. ... The predetermination would come from the initial ... conditions and laws of the Universe. ... An intellect which at a certain moment would know all ...
    (comp.os.vms)
  • Re: Heres one for Bob (hope it makes your head spin)
    ... But he did change his mind. ... everything is predetermined and hence our free-will is an illusion. ... For all I know the future Universe is totally predetermined ... The predetermination would come from the initial ...
    (comp.os.vms)