Re: Here's one for Bob (hope it makes your head spin)

In article <cn%Di.303$hP1.2@xxxxxxxxxxxx>, Ron Johnson <ron.l.johnson@xxxxxxx> writes:
On 09/06/07 14:51, Doug Phillips wrote:
On Sep 6, 1:21 pm, Ron Johnson <ron.l.john...@xxxxxxx> wrote:
On 09/06/07 11:00, davi...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:



In article <7_zDi.246902$dA7.32...@xxxxxxxxxxxx>, Ron Johnson <ron.l.john...@xxxxxxx> writes:
On 09/05/07 08:08, davi...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
In article <1188944683.389501.295...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, ultra...@xxxxxxxxx writes:
On Sep 4, 4:50 pm, koeh...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Bob
Koehler) wrote:
In article <1188926008.865710.82...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, ultra...@xxxxxxxxx writes:
" He who is the Glory of Israel does not lie or change his mind; for
he is not a man, that he should change his mind."
But he did change his mind. He sent his only son to implement the
changes.
no He did not ... that was planned all along ...
God knows the future ... read revelation and Daniel
and other prophecies and they are happening right
now before your very eyes ...
If he knows the future (which he obviously should being omniscient) then
everything is predetermined and hence our free-will is an illusion.
Not true.
"Predetermined" implies a consciously-created pre-set plan of action.
No it doesn't.
And I disagree.

$ dict predetermined
3 definitions found

From The Collaborative International Dictionary of English v.0.48
[gcide]:

Predetermine \Pre`de*ter"mine\, v. t. [imp. & p. p.
{Predetermined}; p. pr. & vb. n. {Predermining}.] [Pref. pre-
+ determine: cf. F. pr['e]d['e]terminer.]
1. To determine (something) beforehand. --Sir M. Hale.
[1913 Webster]

2. To doom by previous decree; to foredoom.
[1913 Webster]

From WordNet (r) 2.1 (2005) [wn]:

predetermined
adj 1: set in advance; "a preset plan of action"; "at a
predetermined time" [syn: {preset}, {predetermined}]

For all I know the future Universe is totally predetermined
(and we have no free will but just an illusion of free will) but that doesn't
imply that God or any other entity consciously created a plan of how the
Universe will unfold. The predetermination would come from the initial
conditions and laws of the Universe.
(For the purposes of this discussion i'm ignoring the complexities about
pre-determination introduced by our poor understanding of the meaning of
Quantum theory and treating the Universe as a classical system).
I just totally disagree with that meaning of predetermined.

For example: the end-result of computer simulations are not
predetermined before the sim is run.


The conclusion of the sim will be shown to have resulted from our
"preset plan of action" whether that plan was sound or flawed. The

Unless there's a RNG in there to simulate unpredictable external
variables.

In computer programs random number generators do not truly generate random
numbers they generate pseudorandom numbers using a seed. So long as the inputs
used to generate the seed are the same the same random number will be
generated.
You could also use a physical external process to generate random numbers but
again this would not usually be truly random. To get something many would
regard as truly random you would need to use quantum processes.

(However as I mentioned in a previous post any relativistic quantum theory
would define simultaneity of spatially separated events differently for
observers moving relative to each other and hence would for any theory which
posited a single consistent universe - ie excluding the many-world and similar
theories - have to require a fixed pre-determined future for the Universe.)


David Webb
Security team leader
CCSS
Middlesex University


result was "foredoomed." It was "set in advance" and we can trace the
logic back to the beginning and see how the result was obtained.
What's your disagreement? That we didn't know the result in advance?
The definition does not require us to read the future, only the past.



--
Ron Johnson, Jr.
Jefferson LA USA

Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day.
Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good!
.

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