Re: NASA gets SGI 2048-core Itanium 2 supercomputer

david20@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
In article <475427FC.7090705@xxxxxxxxxxx>, "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@xxxxxxxxxxx> writes:

david20@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:

In article <5rige5F14vl2oU1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, billg999@xxxxxxxxxxx (Bill Gunshannon) writes:


In article <fiu42g$b5c$1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
david20@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx writes:


In article <5redcaF14d6hgU1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, billg999@xxxxxxxxxxx (Bill Gunshannon) writes:


In article <fipbbs$sa9$1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
david20@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx writes:


In article <5ragurF139h2rU1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, billg999@xxxxxxxxxxx (Bill Gunshannon) writes:


In article <2e0f3$474fc65d$cef8887a$6850@xxxxxxxxxxxx>,
JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> writes:


Dr. Dweeb wrote:


Can someone give me one, clear, unequivocal reason why manned space flight out of earth's orbit in any way justifies its cost relative to unmanned missions (which are massively less expensive) to other solar system bodies?


When Christopher Columbus set out, he was hoping to find a way to india by going west. He didn't find what he was looking for. But he found something totally unexpected.

Hardly. Christopher Columbus was much closer to NASA than most people
give him credit for. He knew there was no direct westerly path to India.

In that case he either had inside information that America existed (there have
I believe been claims that he had seen a Map which might have been produced by previous Viking explorers) or he was suicidal. If he had no knowledge of
America's existence and knew there was noway for him to reach India then what
was he trying to do ? The money he "conned" out of the Spanish wouldn't do him much good in Davey Jone's Locker.



He conned Spain into financing a junket that could not possibly accomplish
what he told them it would. Either that, or he was truly the biggest
idiot the world has ever seen.

The map was located in Turkey and supposedly there are records of his
having had access to it. In any event, you basicly agreed with me
completely. He was either an idiot or a con-man. Take your pick.

Ah, so by con-man you were actually meaning that he had inside knowledge of the
existance of America (from the Map) and conned the spanish monarchs by planning to reach that target whilst telling them he was going to India.
How does that tie in with your "closer to NASA" ?
As far as I am aware NASA has always striven to reach it's stated astronomical
targets ie Earth Orbit, Moon , building of space station,
robotic exploration of outer planets etc
Unless of course you believe that the moon landings were faked ?

No, not faked, just a tremendous waste of time and money.


The only waste was the lack of follow-through during the last 30 years.

What benefit would follow from putting more men on the moon? We know how to do it and get them home again. But then what? The only value in "moon rocks" is their scarcity! We know of nothing on the moon that would justify the enormous expense of sending men there and getting them back home again. The expense of keeping men on the moon is unthinkable!
Everything they needed would have to be sent from Earth at enormous expense. What could a few men and/or women do on the moon that would justify the expense?


Sorry the regolith is full of metals and importantly has an oxygen content of
about 40% see

http://www.moonminer.com/Lunar_regolith.html

Given the low gravity and hence low escape velocity of the moon this oxygen
could form a valuable resource to enable spacecraft refueling in cis-lunar
orbit cutting down on launch weight from Earth.

See

http://www.asi.org/adb/04/03/10/04/oxygen-extraction.html


Note. This is just strip mining of the regolith - no need for deep mines.

(I'm ignoring Helium-3 for the moment since although it has great future
potential - the reaction is cleaner and more efficient though requiring higher
temperatures than deuterium-tritium reactions - we need to have the fusion
technology in place before it would be economically valuable.)


The moon would also make a great platform for astronomical observatories.
Space-borne interferometry missions such as the free flying terrestrial planet
finder are planned but moon-based interferometry systems planted on solid
ground would be able to provide much longer baselines rivalling those of earth
based systems but without the problems associated with earth based astronomy.



I've read all the science fiction. Heinlein's "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress" makes a great read but I always thought that the enconomics of the moon as prison were a little questionable. If the public had the choice of sending incorrigible criminals to the moon for life or just putting them in front of a firing squad, which would they choose? Given that the firing squad costs $100 and a one way ticket to the moon $1,000,000; which, as a voter, would you choose? Has anybody ever analyzed the costs of building and operating a prison on the moon?




As you say that is Science Fiction (and fairly old Science Fiction at that I
believe it was published in 1966). Moon based Industry is more likely than a prison colony. Though there are arguments for the Industry being space-based
and just being supplied with raw materials mined from the moon and transported
into orbit using a mass-driver.

The expense of getting anything at all out of our immense gravity well is great enough that there would have to be a huge payoff. Strip mining requires heavy machinery. The machinery requires fuel and oxygen. I don't see it happening any time soon. The crew to operate the machinery will require food, oxygen, shelter, etc. Then too, there is the problem of soft landing anything we might mine on the moon. There's no point in burning it up as a meteorite or dropping it on somebody's head or house.

We are sitting on the only real estate in the solar system that is likely to be of any great use any time in the next hundred years!

.

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