Re: Singapore Server Rescue

In article <21917$4754e0d9$cef8887a$8496@xxxxxxxxxxxx>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> writes:
John Wallace wrote:
what's stopping you going down the "end up like Alpha" route ? I guess the
lack of a Palmer, and having Intel's money+legal department on your side
rather than opposing, both count in IA64's favour, but there's not much I
can see that stops IA64 sponer or later going down the "chip+system costs
too high because chip+system volumes too low" road like Alpha allegedly did.


I think this is now a moot question. This past summer, it was revealed
that HP had "invited" CERNER to drop support for VMS and go for HP-UX,
AND Livermore made a point during an inteview to change the subject and
mention that HP essentially wants VMS customers to buy other HP gear
when they drop VMS (Essentially doing what Stallard had done on May 7th
2002 when he said that he expected VMS customers to migrate to HP-UX
whenever they were ready)

HP-UX's future is tied to IA64.


Lets face the hard facts here: VMS may still be ahead with clustering,
but when you look at all the rest, it is quite far back. Look at the
pace of development of OS-X, Linux and even Windows and we've been
blindsighted. Look at the SMTP product on VMS which still lacks
username/password capability for the receiver. There is a serious
security flaw for the POP server that yet to be fixed.

Then get a mailserver rather than something which comes with the IP stack eg
PMDF (which also includes POP and IMAP servers) or MX (I think SMTP AUTH was
added to MX with version 5.2).


So Mr Kerry M may proclaim that VMS doesn't have patches, but that is
not an indication of good software, it is an indication of insufficient
resources to produce security patches, leaving pretty significant holes
for months in VMS security which would be fixed in weeks/days in Linux.

What is the security hole in POP that you are talking about - is it the lack of
intrusion-detection and evasion ? If so then please tell me which linux version
and associated POP server version provides this functionality ?




Consider the possibility that the staff cuts made in recent years to the
VMS group have had a much greater impact than we were lead to believe.
Sure, HP can still claim to have development on VMS. But if due to lower
staffing, a much greater proportion of resources are assigned to support
new HP hardware (like blades and the upcoming HPVM that will let VMS run
as a glorified application on HPUX),

VMS runs natively on Blades no need for running on top of HP-UX.

Although things aren't as rosy as I would like and I certainly think that VMS
should be ported to x86-64 and that IA64 was a colossal mistake you seem to
have moved from valid critique to pure FUD.


David Webb
Security team leader
CCSS
Middlesex University




it means that new features will be
added at a slower and slower rate to VMS. So HP can legally still claim
continued development of VMS. But it doesn't mean new important
features, it ca simply be new versions that support new hardware,
printers and disk subsystems (or new licensing schemes).


What happens to an OS whose features lag industry and lack of
development resources result in the gap widening instead of narrowing ?


I think Apple was once in this position with its Classic Mac-OS not
being given the resources/direction to make the jump to a real
multitasking OS and let Windows get ahead. It took Steve Jobs to return
to Apple and set a clear direction, allocated the resources and go ahead
with it.

Steve Jobs took a sick/weak Apple, and re-invented it from scratch.
Consider that OS-X has nothing in common with he classic Mac-OS, other
than the ability to emulate a classic environment to allow classic apps
to run. New GUI, new APIs new kernel.

Jobs's charisma/marketing savvy managed to build an impressive software
portfolio from scratch for an essentially totally new OS in very little
time. The amount of native OS-X applications is now large enough that
Apple didn't need to provide the classic emulator on the 8086 version of
OS-X. Oh, and BTW, Apple managed a very speedy architecture
transition while continuing to grow the software portfolio. (In VMS's
case, every plaform change entailed a smaller and smaller subset of
available software).

Unfortunatly, there is no Steve Jobs for VMS. But there are Stallards
and Livermores whose stated goals are to fish VMS customers out of the
tank and drop them in HP-UX or HP branded wintel servers.


Apple's own survival was at stake, and directors bit their tongue and
decided to do whatever it took to bring back Jobs (whom they had
fired/told to leave so Sculley could "administer" Apple properly). And I
suspect Jobs negotiated a lot of power so he could reshape Apple in a
major way. And he most certaintly reshaped Apple in no small way.

HP doesn't depend on VMS. Downsizing of VMS doesn't affect HP's bottom
line, and HP's board isn't about to give anyone supreme power to reshape
the VMS group to bring VMS back to life.

At this point in VMS' life, nothing short of a large influx of
money/energy would bring VMS back in the game. HP has made it clear this
isn't going to happen.
.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Singapore Server Rescue
    ... This past summer, it was revealed that HP had "invited" CERNER to drop support for VMS and go for HP-UX, AND Livermore made a point during an inteview to change the subject and mention that HP essentially wants VMS customers to buy other HP gear when they drop VMS ... So Mr Kerry M may proclaim that VMS doesn't have patches, but that is not an indication of good software, it is an indication of insufficient resources to produce security patches, leaving pretty significant holes for months in VMS security which would be fixed in weeks/days in Linux. ... I think Apple was once in this position with its Classic Mac-OS not being given the resources/direction to make the jump to a real multitasking OS and let Windows get ahead. ... It took Steve Jobs to return to Apple and set a clear direction, allocated the resources and go ahead with it. ...
    (comp.os.vms)
  • Re: Question for the Group
    ... no marketing could have done that. ... but didn't Apple do the same? ... Now if VMS would have some security certificate ... who have left unis without ever having heard about VMS. ...
    (comp.os.vms)
  • Its the applications dummy !!!!
    ... I still remember when the VMS ... Apple saw application developers deserting to Windows. ... It decided to fight for that market with its own applications. ... Now, many of the OS-X features are very impressive, but a lot of them ...
    (comp.os.vms)
  • Re: Faced with flagging PC sales, HPand others are pushing aggressively into digital entertainment.
    ... > HP should license more technology from Apple. ... and instead of dicking with Itanicum, they should port VMS to the Power ... great GUI atop and we'd finally have VMS running on a quality bit of laptop ...
    (comp.os.vms)
  • Re: Accuweather video mentions VMS (TWICE!)
    ... >>Apple has their brand visible in stores, other ads and even in cinema ... VMS doesn't have that luxury. ... > Apple garnered big brand recognition and pretty much founded the initial sales ... >>True, but there's no sense pissing off your supporters, either. ...
    (comp.os.vms)