Re: OT: One Laptop per Child

On Dec 8, 10:27 am, billg...@xxxxxxxxxxx (Bill Gunshannon) wrote:
In article <0cb14cd4-c2c7-41c6-be7c-c07bc6dc8...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
AEF <spamsink2...@xxxxxxxxx> writes:



On Dec 8, 7:31 am, billg...@xxxxxxxxxxx (Bill Gunshannon) wrote:
In article <475a7ef1$0$27828$9b536...@xxxxxxxxxx>,
Uusimäki <uusimaki@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> writes:

JF Mezei wrote:
Right now, Linux is being used for the "One Laptop per Child" projects
around the world.

Microsoft, not wanting to be left out, has setup a team of 40 people
trying to fit Windows and office on 1gig (they can't) so now they will
pay for flash cards and the hardware needed to be added on the cheap
laptops, and they still are having problems fitting the bloat that is
Windows onto those cards. And they will also need to update the laptop's
firmware to support booting from the additional flashcards.

Just imagine if many years ago, VMS management had listened to Mr
Dachtera and ported VMS to the then 32 bit 8086. Today, they could load>> >> VMS on those laptops with space to spare simply because VMS engineers
have always been fairly mature, efficient and frugal in system resources
needed to run their software. It would have paid off big time if VMS had
been selected to be the OS of choice for those laptops all around the
world. (put in Mosaic, update MAIL and DECWRITE and you're set).

It, way too late now, of course.

But it is interesting to see Microsoft struggle with this and hopefully>> >> they will fail and millions of kids around the world will learn Linux first.

Quite so, but it wouldn't have been too much of an effort to convert
e.g. the VAXstation 4000-VLC into a laptop case. There was about
everything needed on a main board with only one daughter card (the
graphichs card). If the SIMM sockets would have been inclined, it would
have been ready for putting into a laptop case.
I think it would have been better to make a VAX laptop than trying to
fit VMS on every other possible hardware combination. That would never
have made it worth while. There is way too much work and the result
would be too uncertain.

In mid 90's there was built a AlphaBook, as you surely know, but for
some reason it never became popular. IMHO the reason was exactly what
you mentioned; VMS vas not made available early enough on laptops.

BUt it would have lacked the most important part needed for this
program. A price low enough to give away a million of them. The
recently released EeePC is $300-400 and it is not part of this
program because it is being sold at a profit. You can figure the
likely real cost from this. What would a VAX laptop or an Alphabook
cost? And we need not even go into the shortcomings of VMS for a
project like this.

bill

--
Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves>> b...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
University of Scranton |
Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include <std.disclaimer.h>
The problem with this argument is that it is comparing apples to
oranges.

How so?

Because you're ignoring the premise of the argument. Quoting from the
original post:

"Just imagine if many years ago, VMS management had listened to Mr
Dachtera and ported VMS to the then 32 bit 8086. Today, they could
load
VMS on those laptops with space to spare simply because VMS engineers
have always been fairly mature, efficient and frugal in system
resources
needed to run their software. It would have paid off big time if VMS
had
been selected to be the OS of choice for those laptops all around the
world. (put in Mosaic, update MAIL and DECWRITE and you're set).

It, way too late now, of course. "

You talk about VAX and Alpha laptops. He's talking about 8086 (or
whatever the hell the stupid architecture is called). He's talking
about if it had been done way back.


Are regular Linux or Windows or Mac laptops currently cheap
enough to give away? NO!

OLPC is not giving away "regular Linux or Windows or Mac laptops"
it is giving away OLPC Laptops. My ASUS EeePC IS a "regular Linux"
laptop and it can run Windows as well. And, even with the need to
make a profit it is selling for less than $400. Real cost is probably
in the neighborhood of around $200.

But you spoke of VAX and Alpha laptops. Not what would have been
"8086" (OWTHTSAIC) laptops running VMS. You keep comparing to what VMS
would cost if done now instead of what it would have cost if it were
ported to WTHTAIC long ago. That's apples to oranges.


That's apples to apples (and Apples!). The
question how much it would cost if one went through the same procedure
to make cheap VMS laptops.

Well, if you want to be pedantic, I can run VMS on my EeePC. Just load
SIMH and then load VMS. The question being who would want to? It would
definitely not fit the criteria for the OLPC program.

Again you're comparing to present VMS, not to VMS according to the
original premise.


Remember, while these laptops are very
cheap and have some capabilities regular laptops lack, they are very
limited compared to regular laptops in other ways.

I would need to look at the actual specs for the OLPC laptops, but I
really can't see where they would be lacking any needed funtionality.
My cheap EeePC has all the capabilities of my IBM Thinkpad and comes
pre-configured to do a lot of things that took considerable adjustment
to do on the Thinkpad.

I saw the report on 60 minutes about it. I think it was very limited
in some respects. You can't put CD's in it. There's no hard drive. No
bays or ports. Lots of stuff like that is missing, I think. I don't
know anything about the EeePC, however, as this is the first I've
heard of it.


And keep in mind
the assumption that VMS would have already been ported to the
appropriate architecture, etc., etc., You can't assume what would it
cost to do this now. That was not the point. (Another level of apples
to oranges!).
Just what shortcomings were you thinking of?

The total lack of a usable interface and the necessary applications for
it to be usable by the target audience.

Again comparing to present VMS instead of what VMS would have been
according to the original premise.


bill

--
Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves
b...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
University of Scranton |
Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include <std.disclaimer.h>

AEF
.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: OT: One Laptop per Child
    ... The OLPC machines are designed to be inexpensive and robust. ... be possible today to build some cheap machine that can run VMS. ... Those laptops could be using vaxes from 2 generations back, ... Real laptops today cost a lot because, as a status symbol, they are ...
    (comp.os.vms)
  • Re: OT: One Laptop per Child
    ... trying to fit Windows and office on 1gig so now they will ... Windows onto those cards. ... Just imagine if many years ago, VMS management had listened to Mr ... VMS on those laptops with space to spare simply because VMS engineers ...
    (comp.os.vms)
  • Re: OT: One Laptop per Child
    ... trying to fit Windows and office on 1gig so now they will ... Windows onto those cards. ... Just imagine if many years ago, VMS management had listened to Mr ... VMS on those laptops with space to spare simply because VMS engineers ...
    (comp.os.vms)
  • Re: OT: One Laptop per Child
    ... Windows onto those cards. ... Dachtera and ported VMS to the then 32 bit 8086. ... VMS on those laptops with space to spare simply because VMS engineers ... That's apples to apples. ...
    (comp.os.vms)
  • Re: OT: One Laptop per Child
    ... laptops, and they still are having problems fitting the bloat that is ... Windows onto those cards. ... fit VMS on every other possible hardware combination. ...
    (comp.os.vms)
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