Re: OT: Net Neutrality is far more serious than people realise

david20@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
In article <4844b7b1$0$7257$c3e8da3@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> writes:

johnwallace4@xxxxxxxxx wrote:


Ellacoya's deep packet inspection mostly looks at packet headers,
protocol types, IP addresses, and the like, and uses them fo "traffic
management" purposes, flow control, prioritisation, and such, without
actually knowing or caring about the details of the content.

I am affraid to tell you that you have drunken the kool-aid. I am quite
surprised that you would believe the above.

BitTorrent does not use well known ports. It does not use any special IP
or TCP options. So pray tell how your magic Ellacoya boxes can detect a
"flow" of BitTorrent without looking at the packet payload ?

In fact, Ellacoya prides itself in being able to detect BitTorrent flows
on well known ports such as 80. (for legal purposes, they don't have
the guts to say "BitTorrent" because they are affraid of being sued by
that corporation so they use "P2P".


JF you seem to think that this is something new it isn't. Companies have been
fighting against the use of P2P applications and "firewall friendly"
applications using deep inspection and traffic shaping tools for years.
As to net neutrality this is a bit of mythology. The internet is and always has
been a connected set of private networks. Each owner of a private network has
always been free to accept, reject, throttle whatever traffic they like.
The classic example is the granddaddy of email blacklists the RBL. The RBL
(Realtime Blackhole list) could be deployed in two ways. The first was simply
as an email check as with all the other DNS based blocking lists. The second
though and the reason it is called a blackhole list was to alter routing
information to effectivily cut the listed servers off the internet as far as
those using the RBL service were concerned. This second method cuts not just
email traffic but all traffic.

See

http://www.mail-abuse.com/wp_introrbl.html

At one point the company providing the Transatlantic link into Janet (UK Joint
Academic Network) was using the MAPS RBL in router blocking mode. Hence if a
site in the states managed to get onto that list and tried to contact a UK
university they would not be able to connect over the internet and the UK
university would have no knowledge of their connection attempts or way of
allowing the US system to communicate. The only solution was for the US
institution to get its system removed from the RBL.
This was in place for a number of years.



David Webb
Security team leader
CCSS
Middlesex University






I'm a
customer of an ISP with Ellacoyas and I'm comfortable with it (for
now), though I understand that other folks might not be happy; that;s
what "choice" is for.

"for now" is the big key here. They have hooked and brainwashed you. And
slowly, they will morph their service offering to a point where if you
wish to connect an Xbox you need to pay extra and they will configure
your ellacoya profile to allow Xbox traffic through. (yes, ellacoya
works on an individual basis can captures data on an individual basis
down to what applications you are using for how long).

Want VoIP ? Well your telco ISP will block VoIP by default. (well not
totally block it, but they will give you such a low throughput as to
make it unusable). You want assured quality ? then you pay an extra $20
per month to have SIP protocol unblocked. Of course, most people will
then look at the $20 + Vonage fees and decide to stay with the telco's
landline service.


YOU HAVE TO NIP THIS IN THE BUD. IF YOU LET THOSE BOXES TAKE ROOT, THE
INTERNET WILL BECOME LIKE CABLE WHERE THE ISP WILL SELL YOU "CHANNELS"
AND YOU CAN ONLY WATCH THOSE CHANNELS.

Ellacoya isn't about managing traffic, it is about segregating it so
that the ISP can make more money by making various applicatiosn
"optional extras".

What's the point of setting up your own web site when most users won't
be able to access it ? You'll then be forced to go to facebook or
whichever popular web site has paid to be made available on ISP's "basic
access" packages, and you then have to be limited by what facebook gives
you. No more freedom to create you own web sites.

In essence, it is moving the internet from democratic media to
corporatised media.


Read about it. I didn't believe about this until Bell started to mess
withj my traffic (I am not a customer of Bell, Bell is messing with a
competitor's traffic) and the more I read about it, the more serious I
see the issue.



I suspect what JF is referring to, for real intrusive monitoring,
where all http traffic flowing through your ISP is intercepted, not
just headers, and the *contents* of your traffic used to provide
"extra targeted" ads isn't Ellacoya at all.

Do you seriously believe that Ellacoya's boxes are not able to record an
individual's HTTP requests ? Think again. Read up about it. And if they
were so angel like, why would they make so damned sure there is not a
trace of documentation on the net about how their boxes work ? But they
sure like to brag about their capabilities.


Bell Canada is desperate to control media and get advertising revenus.
They wasted a LOT of money during .com trying to emaulate the
AOL-Time/Warner fiasco by buying media/tv in canada. They had to sell it
all off because they were nearly bankrupt. And now, they see an
opportunity to use the internet to get their foot into content again.


An ISP is *not* a private net. It is a public network. As a common
carrier, it is shielded from responsibility for content. In return for
that shielding, it must provide transit for everyone on equal terms.

At least, that is the way it is *supposed* to work. The ISPs seem to
want the best of both worlds. There is a term for an economic system
that uses the power of the state to protect entrenched oligarchies at
the expense of personal liberties. Anyone care to invoke Godwin?

I just today got an email from my ISP stating that they were going to
change the terms of service. The included summary seemed fairly
reasonable (don't know if the summary reflects the actual TOS), except
for one phrase...

"4. Modifications to AUP. We have added language to our AUP making clear (a)
that we may monitor our subscribers’ compliance with our Terms of Service and
AUP; and (b) that we have the right, but not the obligation, to pre-screen,
refuse, move or remove any content available on the Service including, but not
limited to, content that violates the law, our Terms of Service or our AUP."

The "but not limited to" gives them the right to block or remove any
content whatsoever, for any or no reason. For example, if they made
a deal with M$ or Amazon, they could block iTunes downloads. Or they
could block Skype because it competes with their VOIP service. Or
they could throttle a customer because they complain too much about
poor service. Or they could block email to the FCC if they suspected
you were complaining. In the old days of dialup Internet, you could
change ISPs if your current one was not providing decent service
since there were lots of competitors, but now there are only two
broadband providers (TelCo and cable TV company) available to most
people.

JF may be paranoid, but even paranoids have real enemies.

--
John Santos
.

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