Re: Current status?

None of you obviously have ever had the need to try to debug and check a mail servier from somewhere...

And no, spam will not stop because you start blocking port 25. And no, not all people get dynamic addresses just because they are individual customers and not companies (I have a fixed address, for instance).

And some people decide to block my mails. Well, that can be a problem for me. It can be a problem for them. I still won't use the idiots running the ISP for my mail. If you haven't realized they are clowns, it's just because you haven't really looked at how they work.

I agree that not everyone knows enough about how things work in order to handle services themself. For those people, the ISP can continue to do business. For people who do know what they are doing, the ISP can go drown themself. The only thing I need from them is the cable. The rest I manage myself, thank you very much.
And, in contrast with all the ISPs in Sweden atleast, my mail service have been 100% working for the last few years, and I haven't lost any mails. Not one of the ISPs can claim the same.

And I also know that I have not originated any spam. Once again not something any of the ISPs can say.

So who do you people really think you're fooling with your ideas of blocking people from talking to port 25 externally?

Let me tell you one absolute truth about spammers. Noone have managed to come up with a technical solution that has the least impact on spammers yet. Spam is increasing, and the only band-aid that actually even have the least impact is spam filters which atleast get the mails away from me before I have to read them. It's not perfect by any measure, but it atleast gets maybe 80% away from me.

Blocking port 25? Ha! A lot of ISPs in Sweden do that. It sure hasn't reduced spam, I can assure you.

Actually, this is a typical idea of people without enough technical knowledge, but with enough knowledge to actually convince other unknowing people that they have a solution.

Johnny

david20@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx skrev:
In article <6iv84fFma4eU1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, billg999@xxxxxxxxxxx (Bill Gunshannon) writes:
In article <gad5rp$25e$1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
Johnny Billquist <bqt@xxxxxxxxxxxx> writes:
Bill Gunshannon skrev:
In article <hPXxk.13$ia.10@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
John Santos <john@xxxxxxx> writes:
Bill Gunshannon wrote:
I'm on Verizon FIOS at home and I know the FIOS converter box
is a router and does NAT and some level of filtering, so inbound
port 25 traffic wouldn't make it to my LAN (or single computer
if that was all I had) unless I actively reconfigure it to pass
port 25 to a designated host (the default is "block"), but I
don't know if the same applies to Comcast cable modems. (FIOS
is point-to-point to the central office, like DSL, so local
"LAN" traffic isn't a separate issue like it would be with
Comcast.) In other words, blocking at the upstream router or
at my home would be equally effective with FIOS or DSL, but
for Comcast, only blocking at the home would catch everything.
Inbound port 25 to your machine is not the source of SPAM, outbound
from your machine, which has no business sending email to anyone but
your local MTA for relaying, to the INTERNET in general is. It doesn't
require blocking at the user level, just at the border of the email domain
which is your ISP.
Just thought I'd throw in a torch here, and then I'll be quiet again.

I just totally hate ISPs that block port 25. The less I have to deal with an ISP, the better my life works. They are *clowns* and I for one am not interested in letting them handling my mail traffic if I can avoid it.
If you are a residential customer:
1. You probably don't have a clue what ahy of this means.
2. You have no need to run your own mail server.
3. Your AUP (at least for every ISP in the US who's AUP I am familiar
with) prohibits you from running an servers.

You also are probably being provided with a dynamic address by your ISP
and hence if sending mail out directly risk having your mail blocked because your recipient's mailhub is using one of the many DUL lists ( SORBS DUHL, SpamHaus PBL etc).
To ensure your mail is not blocked by such a list you should be sending through a mailhub with a fixed IP address - for most people the simplest to use is the ISP's mailhub. This is irrespective of whether or not the ISP blocks outbound port 25 connections. The only time that the ISP blocking outbound port 25 connections is a real
problem is if you want to send mail out through another fixed ip address
mailhub eg your employer's mailhub. Which is where having your employer setup
their mailhub to support authenticated connections on the submission port comes
in.


David Webb
Security team leader
CCSS
Middlesex University



So why would you need access to port 25? If you have commercial network
service, nothing should be blocked, but you should be held to a much higher
standard of maintenance.

Spam is definitely a scurge, but letting the ISPs get monopoly on mail is not the solution.
It's not giving them a monopoly. Anyone who wants to run servers merely
needs a commercial and not a residential service agreement.

And as others have pointed out, the fact that a whole bunch of ISPs now block port 25 haven't reduced spam one bit.
Actually, the number who do is insignificant. Most of the major ISP's in
the US do not. And probably don't even know what we are talking about.

Don't kill the messenger when the message is junk. Find the originator instead. That's where your problem is, and that is where you need to apply the fix. Otherwise the spammer will just continue, finding new ways of spreading their junk.
I can virtually eliminate SPAM. All I need is to get people to expend
what will turn out to be considerably less effort nt the long run than
what thye are epending now on the problem.

Jail them. Confiscate their money and their business. That would stop spam. Not much else will.
That comes back to my statement that we need a social solution and not a
technological solution. Under the way the INTERNET is currently run, this
can not be done. Under my plan, it most certainly could.

People who think that blocking ports is a solution to the spam problem are just plain ignorant.
Blocking port 25 is just a bandaid, but the only one we have available
right now. It would have an immediate effect, if it were truly universal.
But the solution needs to be social and that solution exists today and
could easily be improved upon once people actually looked at the problem
and the solution with un-biased eyes.

Thank you for your time. I now let you go back to your spamming. :-)
Always good to hear from you.

bill

--
Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves
billg999@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
University of Scranton |
Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include <std.disclaimer.h>


--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt@xxxxxxxxxx || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Current status?
    ... You would still need to know who your MTA is ... justification for allowing anybody to use port 25. ... to the problem of how to get the email system to be more immune to SPAM. ... your ISP should never allow you ...
    (comp.os.vms)
  • Re: Current status?
    ... I'm on Verizon FIOS at home and I know the FIOS converter box ... port 25 traffic wouldn't make it to my LAN (or single computer ... ISP, ... Spam is definitely a scurge, but letting the ISPs get monopoly on mail is not ...
    (comp.os.vms)
  • Re: Taking Precautions...
    ... I POP3 to my isp for mail - at the ISP I implemented SPAM ... blocked senders while blocking selected domains. ... >infections e-mail would just disappear without you ever ...
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  • AW: AW: [Full-Disclosure] Windows Messenger Popup Spam on UDP Por t 10 26
    ... >>the internet at large. ... >>ISP can either shut him down, ... > In this case I would request all ISPs to block port 25. ... Most spam is NOT sent out via port 25. ...
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  • Re: SMTP and MX Records
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