Re: Anyone interested in another public access system
- From: pechter@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Bill Pechter)
- Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2009 11:52:50 +0000 (UTC)
In article <74jsodF13dn0hU4@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
Bill Gunshannon <billg999@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
In article <gs2dlr$2nd$1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
pechter@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Bill Pechter) writes:
In article <74jo28F13th6fU1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
Bill Gunshannon <billg999@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
In article <gs0quj$8en$1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
pechter@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Bill Pechter) writes:
In article <rdSdnTee6OfhV37UnZ2dnUVZ_jGdnZ2d@xxxxxxxxxxxx>,
Dennis Boone <drb@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Unix provides no means to create a contiguous file; just splatter it
all over the disk!. Even <obligatory retching noises> Windows has
a utility to make your files and free space contiguous. Unix just
doesn't care.
All over the disk? Nonsense. Unices have always tried to keep files
(and their related inodes) contiguous or close together on the disk.
Defrag utilities exist for some filesystems, and though coverage could
be better, fixing it later with a defrag tool is a bass-ackwards fix.
In any event, the idea that the system has to *force* the file to be
contiguous can't be useful very often -- surely a best effort is better
than an abort.
Really... Not true in AT&T based Unixes using the SystemV 1k filesystem.
Fragmentation was an issue. Before that it was even worse.
I remember doing ncheck, icheck etc before there was FSCK.
Yeah, and I remember doing SQUEEZE on my DEC disks. Do we still have to
do that on VMS, I wonder?
Nope... Never did although DSC (Disk Save and Compress) was used before
VMS Backup. IIRC DSC may have been compatibility mode. It was used for
the initial install and compressing backups in the VMS 2.x days.
It did the equivalent of Dump/Restore...
Squeeze was RT11 which did only contiguous allocation for Real Time
fast disk access.
It was a rhetorical question. :-)
Mount verification in progress and the bitmap check on VMS was a whole
lot better. BSD very different than the AT&T based Unix filesystems.
VMS and the BSD's were a bit better in trying to keep the allocations
together.
Can't speak for VMS, but as regards BSD, that is a bit of an understatement.
From some of my systems:
1746 files, 44420 used, 10109779 free (2635 frags, 1263393 blocks, 0.0%
fragmentation)
19 files, 25064 used, 20286338 free (26 frags, 2535789 blocks, 0.0%
fragmentation)
6878 files, 289010 used, 25099511 free (5143 frags, 3136796 blocks, 0.0%
fragmentation)
789103 files, 79801403 used, 156703416 free (197312 frags, 19563263
blocks, 0.1% fragmentation)
User fileserver. Last one is the users directory. 1400 users filesystem
shared thru NFS on Unix systems and Samba on Windows system. All faculty
and student files are here.
132495 files, 2163445 used, 54601550 free (41366 frags, 6820023 blocks,
0.1% fragmentation)
Server set up for literacy students to put up web pages. 4100 students.
562 files, 2945723 used, 34908981 free (293 frags, 4363586 blocks, 0.0%
fragmentation)
Our email spool. 1400 users. ~40000 connections evey 24 hours.
Note the percentage of fragmentation. And, no, there are no de-frag
programs for BSD Unix. The question does come up from a windows weenie
periodically in the BSD Newsgroups.
Don't need 'em.
What defrag programs for windows or windows weenies? :-)
Definitely need the defrag program. Windows is the only OS I know of
that can completely fragment a disk installing the OS.
The BSD Fast Filesystem and it's decendants were a huge improvement over
the AT&T filesystems which looked and acted like they were written for
RK05's. (and they were...)
But then, look at when AT&T actually stopped developing SYSV.
Uh... late 80's or so. Spun off to USL in about 1990. AT&T still
had an interest back then...
I don't remember the date, but long before USL AT&T turned their computer
division over to NCR. It was the death of the real 3B family and the
WE32000 processor family.
bill
--
Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves
billg999@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
University of Scranton |
Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include <std.disclaimer.h>
I think the NCR buyout was in the end of 1990 or Winter of 91.
Killed my job at Pyramid pretty much. AT&T had resold our Pyramid MIS
boxes and were moving to SVR4 on Mips on the MIS-S series... Up to 20
R3000 cpus...
Killed in an instant. My job -- teaching the hardware and software sysadmin
to classes that were 50 to 80 percent AT&T or AT&T customers. (They resold
the boxes as System 7000's...
Bill
--
--
Digital had it then. Don't you wish you could buy it now!
pechter-at-pechter.dyndns.org
.
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