Re: OpenVMS Changes: A Thank You for Sue; Welcome to Sujatha

VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:
In article <00081e2a$0$6110$c3e8da3@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> writes:
Bob Gezelter wrote:

To the community,
I have also seen some comments regarding new members of the OpenVMS
Engineering organization, particularly comments relating to ethnicity
and national origins.

When I was a kid, we used to refer to "made in japan" as something you'd
see on cheap plastic toys of low quality. It had nothing to do with
ethnic issues. Japan worked hard as a nation to shed its image of making
cheap knock offs and today is regarded as a high quality manufacturer.

China and India are now the "low cost" producer of cheap goods and services.

India has a terrible reputation for its call centres. It isn't because
of ethinicity or their accent. It is because foreign companies who
outsource support combine low wages with "script reading drone" job
descriptions where non-employees are limited to certain scripts when
answering calls and are evaluated based on how many calls they can
complete on their own without trransfering to level2 people back at the
original company (the folks who really know the products).

There are many "script reading" call centres around the world and they
all give the same low level of support. India happens to be famous for
that. Just as you can spot some call centre in southern USA, you can
spot a call centre in India. Accents are obvious, even if the drone
pretends his name is Dave and that he is from Chicago.


Like it or not, India has a reputation for low cost, low quality, low
value services. Maybe in 15 years, they will have shed that image and
have gained a great high quality reputation. But right now, this is not
their image.

HP's refusal to even admit to moving VMS engineering to India doesn't
help matters.

It is very possible that the folks they have hired (if they hired any
new people; HP won't say) are extremely capable and have been given a
mandate of producing high quality "no-compromise" software for VMS.

But we can't know this because HP refuses to talk about it. And when a
company refuses to talk about something, it is generally because it
isn't exactly proud of that move. Remember that HP refuses to even
state whether staffing levels remain the same.

If I were a large customer, I would like to get some information from HP
on whether VMS engineering is grown, stayed the same or shrunk.

If granted a lot of autonomy, the new engineering group might become
very proactive and improve many things in VMS and get in touch with the
community and find out what we need. (remember when Guy Peleg came to us
and asked us what we needed added to "BACKUP" ?) With enough autonomy,
the VMS group would have every incentive to improve VMS because their
jobs depend on it.

HOWEVER, if product management is still done in the USA and UA dictates
to the engineering group what they can and cannot do, then VMS continues
on its downward path, and the VMS engineering group become more like
drones performing maintenance scripts and only improving things that
they are allowed to improve.


So while "India" may be mentioned, in the end, the fate of VMS still
rests with HP in Kalifornia because in the end, it is where the real
decisions are made and where the mandate of the folks in india is decided.

India happens to be a country. It it not about ethinicity or racism. It
is about defined job descriptions and limited autonomy given when
corporate functions are moved offshore.

No matter where a group is, if that group is not empowered with
sufficient autonomy, then the end result is that they become drones and
just do what they are told they are allowed to do.

JF hit the nail on the head. I have two very good friends in the
UK -- both hailing from India too. They are very intelligent and
very articulate. The comments I may have made here, and those of
others, are a direct correlation to the issues JF has elaborated here and not because of anti-India bigotry. I could go on for a
few hours about one problem we (my wife and I) had dealing with
Sprint's India call center when we were shipped and charged for
a phone we didn't order. The long ordeal and follow-on contract modification problems that ensued because we tried to straighten
out THEIR error were maddening. Why? Because they were script readers. Toss a spanner in their well-ordered how-to-deal-with-
problem-X scripts and they haven't a clue.

Seriously, I have enough to get my OWN work accomplished these days; I don't need to do anybody elses too! However, I feel I
have been doing more and mroe and more because of outsourcing.

I'll reserve my comments on the "secretive move" of VMS for an-
other post and time.


Now where did I place those made-in-Japan bamboo drink umbrellas?


It sounds suicidal to me! Who is going to pay for phone support that doesn't speak your language? And I don't mean just English. Anyone providing me VMS support must speak both English *and* VMS!

I have spoken, over the years, with a few people whom I believe were Indian. The British educated ones I had no trouble understanding nor did I have any problem making myself understood. Some of the others, not British educated, spoke with accents that I found quite difficult to understand. They, in turn, seemed to have more than a little trouble understanding ME!

I don't mean to throw stones. . . . It could be convincingly argued that I'm not fluent in my native language! (I write MUCH better than I speak.)


I don't often need tech support but when I do need it, I really need it.
I don't need people I can't understand or who can't understand me!
.

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