Re: Quake performance SGI vs Sun

From: JCS (mjcs_750_at_hotmail.com)
Date: 03/29/04 

Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 23:45:08 -0600

"UNIX Musuem" <unixmuseum@verizon.com> wrote in message
news:20040328194431.12a053e8.unixmuseum@verizon.com...
> On Sun, 28 Mar 2004 21:10:16 -0600
> "JCS" <mjcs_750@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >

<snip>

> >
> Now come on! 100,000 dof nowadays is nothing. 10-15 years ago, this was
handled on departmental compute servers, today, I don't even bother firing
up a workstation for that, my PIII laptop does that just fine... Multiply
this by 10 or even 100, then you'll see...

This was a 200 MHz Pentium Pro in 1996.

> >
> > >
> > > Now, try the same thing on a UNIX box, doesn't have to be an sgi. You
> > cannot tell me that Windows does a good job at multi-tasking.
> >
> > Yes, I can.
> Well, we apparently are not talking about the same thing... Apart from
security & stability, inefficiency in multi-tasking is the most common
problem on Windows. Not running e-mail and word; using 99% of the CPU for
one thing and still being able to use the system with decent response is
what I'm talking about. This is purely not the case on Windows, this is what
UNIX can do perfectly...

Depends on the quality of the application, but yes, it is possible with
Windows. I wasn't talking about email and Word.

> >
> > > I have both, including what would be considered a high-end Windows
> > workstation (PIV 3.2, 2.5GB RAM, 10K RPM SCSI HD on RAID controller,
128MB
> > graphics card), and I still see a large difference. I am no masochist, I
> > would not have any reason for using the UNIX box if the PC could handle
it
> > all... Once and for all: the PC is definitely the most convenient, as
all
> > the apps are running under the same roof, BUT sometimes, limitations in
the
> > hardware or OS make a UNIX machine a better proposition.
> >
> > Depends on the machine. The PIV isn't going to compete with an Onyx4,
but a
> > Fuel? Yes.
> You're probably right. As long as it fits in RAM, a beefed-up PC might
very well outperform a Fuel.
> As soon as you need swap or go outside of the 32-bit boundary, then no.

Swap? You seem to think fast disk systems aren't available outside an SGI?
As for the >4GB, then you have Opteron.

> >
> >
> > >
> > > > >
> > > > > The bottom line is: if you have a choice between a UNIX box or a
PC to
> > > > play games on, why bother UNIX? The PC is meant for that... For
anything
> > > > somewhat scientific or involving large datasets manipulation, UNIX
is a
> > very
> > > > good first choice. I myself like sgi hardware for their I/O bandwith
and
> > > > IRIX for taking advantage of it (grio, ffio, mpt,...).
> > > >
> > > > Except for the expense. That makes it the second choice for anyone
with
> > any
> > > > kind of budget. At least on the desktop. You just DO NOT see
large
> > > > numbers of traditional UNIX workstations in use these days - except
for
> > > > legacy purposes. They've been replaced with Linux and Windows
machines.
> > > > That is reality.
> > > >
> > > You're right, UNIX machines are more expensive than PCs. Upgrading
them
> > requires qualified & proprietary hardware to be bought instead of
shoveling
> > in the latets $5.99 crap from Fry's and expecting plug & play to take
> > over...
> >
> > Oh, please. There is perfectly good hardware available on the PC side.
>
> Yes there is, definitely. There is also shitty stuff, but at least people
have the choice, unlike most UNIX hardware.

You've rather obviously never used a SunBlade 100.

>
> >
> >
> > >
> > > There are still many aspects of IT that still requires UNIX: ERP & PDM
> > system servers, Oracle servers, crash codes, CFD, large dynamics FEA
jobs
> > (10-20 million dof are common practice in automotive).
> >
> > Depends. UNIX (traditional) workstations? Not so much. INCLUDING CFD
and
> > FEA (at least at the "workstation" level). PDM? Not unless you
actually
> > *want* to buy Windchill.
> >
> Well, some people do require 64-bit architecture... Many FEA jobs are
still running on compute servers or large expensive UNIX workstations
because they are too big for anything else: transient aerodynamics
calculation of aircrafts, automotive crash calculations are simple examples.
You're right though, the gap is closing on the hardware side, it has still a
long way to go on the OS side...

Anything that big isn't running on a workstation. We're talking about
*workstations*.

JCS