Re: DB newbie needs suggestions for bsd-based {db + frontend} ports

From: jpd (read_the_sig_at_do.not.spam.it)
Date: 08/03/04 

Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 05:06:16 +0000 (UTC)

On 2004-08-02, Bas v.d. Wiel <beetjebrak78@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Your point is certainly valid from a technological point of view and I
> couldn't agree more with you, but for a someone new to PHP and web
> programming, it's probably much easier to start off with MySQL instead
> of Postgres because there are tons of tutorials based on MySQL while
> there are hardly as many to be found for Postgres.

Then again, PostgreSQL is standards adherent enough that with a good
book on SQL (basics!) and the pgsql reference (admin, details) you'll
be far ahead of most tutorials.

Installation is about as difficult for both systems using the
ports system: install, point it to wherever you want to store your
databases, initialize. Probably have to fudge a bit with the connection
permissions: I always, at least as much as possible, only allow unix
socket connections and then the defaults are reasonable for a first time
dedicated db/http server setup.

> I agree with you that Postgres is the superior DB product in this case,
> but once you learn your way around PHP it's a reasonably trivial chore
> to move your app to Postgres, or to make the jump and make the thing
> completely DB agnostic.

This is one of the problems with PHP, at least last time I played with
it: it is basically a scripting language embedded in HTML with extensive
database connection methods, but they're not homogenised like DBI is.
Which makes the db agnosticizing part less trivial than it could be.

> Everyone is of course free to choose the DB of his/her liking. However
> in my advice to the original poster I kept in mind that he is very
> likely a newcomer to PHP + DB programming so I provided him with the
> most newbie-friendly documented alternative.

I think I tried mysql once. About the first thing I did was run into its
limitations. Might be that I have a programming background and tried to
actually do something useful in its SQL. Quickly switching to pgsql (and
finding the documentation quite good) I'm now far better at it than at
mysql. Somehow those I know doing any adminish stuff also convert, unless
they spent enough time with mysql to _really_ know what is going on.

In my biassed opinion, I'd say pgsql is more newbie friendly, but not
for all newbies. I'm thinking of the newbie that wants to learn SQL,
and especially not about the ``cookbook'' (IE: lookit! I have a LAMP
website! I run it with a script!) variety. It helps that there's a
phppgadmin tool available now, too. Then again, YMMV.

> Putting someone who's coming from Filemaker knee-deep in the swamp that
> an advanced RDBMS can be, is not the best way to start someone's
> learning process.

Not to spoil the party, but if you're going to _build on a SQL DB_, no
matter which one, it'd be wise to at least know enough SQL to, well,
build with it. With that in mind, I'd opt to get some basics down first.
Mooting your point. The fact that I disagree with your definition of
what a user friendly RDBMS is has nothing to do with that, honest. :-)

> Besides, MySQL may not be very advanced compared to
> the likes of Postgres or Oracle, it works well for literally millions of
> sites across the internet (even some bigger ones) so you have to give it
> at least some credit.

Most of those sites would be better off without a database. Yes, I'm a
big fan of statically generated-once websites on thttpd. Why do you ask?

> For now I'm very happy the original poster isn't
> looking to MS Access, if ever there was a bigger abomination, for his DB
> needs.. ;-)

SQL server. Now tie both of those micros~1 applications together.

BTW, access can be made to interface through odbc with pgsql, so
you _could_ transfer your data then use access to admin the resulting
pgsql database. But phppgadmin or the windows standalone pgsql admining
utility (forget its name) are much better for that. 

-- 
  j p d (at) d s b (dot) t u d e l f t (dot) n l .

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