Re: Is it always this difficult to get started with BSD/unix?

From: Torfinn Ingolfsen (tingo_at_start.no)
Date: 10/12/05 

Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 20:47:18 +0200

user wrote:
> Since Saturday, I have spent about 20 hours trying to set up my first
> installation of FreeBSD. I have failed. Consequently, I'd like to get a
> little more feedback on what my expectations should be before I commit any
> more time to this.

You have failed? I disagree, see below.

> Today, I want to broaden my horizons and learn more about server
> administration. I decided the best way to do this would be to set up my own
> web server (on a limited budget). My Macintosh friend recommended BSD as

Note, and note well: a gui (in this case X) is _not_ an integral part of
a server. It can be an add-on, but a server can function very well
without a gui. (A small secret here - FreeBSD actually includes a gui of
sorts that allows you to do limited system administration.)

> Fast-forward to today. Two failed attempts at getting FreeBSD to run on two
> different machines. One, due to LBA - HD and BIOS issues. The other due to

Normal advice for disk geometry / LBA issues (as long as you are only
setting up a single operating system on the machine in question):
a) if the installation program complains about disk geometry / LBA
    - ignore it and see if it will work
b) or use the suggested geometry from the install program.

This will fix most problems (there are "exotic" problems that prpbably
can't be fixed with this approach).

> graphic card issues. Multiple attempts at getting a basic working system up
> and running have born no fruit. Two different versions of BSD were tried:

If you set aside the graphical user interface (X) for a moment - did you
manage to install FreeBSD on that machine?
If so - congratulations, you have succeded in installing the OS.
With a little help from this group, you will also get X up and running.

> 5.2.1 (retail package) and 6.0 RC1. Neither seem to support ATI
> graphics cards -- which I've been using since forever. If I try this

X (the gui used by the BSDs, Linux and some other unix-like systems) is
notr a part of the OS. it is a separate part. Even if X is the same on
different platforms, the various BSDs and the various Linux
distributions differ in what tool they give you to set up (configure) X
to get it working.
On FreeBSD, it is best to deal with X _after_ you have installed the OS
itself. Another message in this thread have already given you
suggestions on how to configure X (it can be done in several ways).

> My impression of FreeBSD so far is that I'm faced with this command line

Don't forget sysinstall. Yes, sysinstall is the tool you use to install
freeBSD, but it can also be used to do post install configuration of
your machine, and it is a great way of doing things while you are
learning FreeBSD.

> that, while not intimidating to me, is totally foreign as compared to the
> DOS and OS/2 that I was familiar with. I'm looking at learning hundred's if
> not thousands of seemingly cryptic commands (at least cryptic to me) in
> order to get this system to do stuff.

This is the same for all BSDs, and most Linux distributions - in order
to really know the system, you will have to know the command line and
some of the cryptic commands.
Think of it as learning a new language - at first everything is
difficult, but as you start to learn bits of it, things are getting
easier and easier.

Also, when dealing with the cryptic commands, don't forget the 'man' and
'apropos' commands.
If you do 'man man' 'man pwd' or 'man ls' you will get info about those
commands.
Try 'apropos wireless', 'apropos intro' to see what this command can do
for you.
And, of course, the handbook. It is a very valuable tool when you are
trying to find out how to do things, looking for reference information, etc.

> Out of the box, I guess that I was expecting something more like OS/2. 10
> years ago, Warp was a great system to set up and use. My expectations were
> that BSD would be something similar to Warp by now.

Well, I guess there is no good way to put this; there are no such open
source systems available today, even if OS/2 could do it. Any BSD or any
Linux distribution that tells you so are just presenting you with a thin
layer of "gui" and hiding the real issues under a thick carpet of smoke.
Why am I saying this?
Because no open source system (to my knowlege) includes a full suite of
gui administriation tools. They might give you a gui to do some
administration tasks, but not all, and pretty soon you will be in the
command line trying to complete your "heavier" administration tasks.
(People who have used IBM AIX ans 'smit' / 'smitty' will know what I am
talking about.)

> I don't have a huge amount of time to dedicate to this. I am definitely

What can I say - myself and many other people find that the investment
in time was worth it. (IMHO, it also still is for me.)

> looking for short cuts. I like to learn by doing -- don't have a lot of time
> to sit down and read books on unix. I'd like to quickly get a machine up and

Then do it. But try to eat reasonable chunks of this cake every time,
don't try to eat the whole in one big chunk.
And when you hit a problem, look for solutions (in preferred order):
- in the handbook / faq
- by searching Google / Google groups
- by asking in this newsgroup (or other forums)

HTH 

-- 
Torfinn Ingolfsen,
Norway

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