Re: Total Newbie

Michel Talon wrote:
<snip>
Well for many years i have found ports marvelous. I am changing my mind
nowadays. First packages in a good Linux distribution like Ubuntu work
objectively very well, and frankly i think only the most fanatic
BSD people will assert that ports system work better. The OpenBSD people
have recognized this fact and are turning to a binary package system as
preferred way of software installation and upgrade. I have written a very
detailed comparison of the FreeBSD/Debian system, and i am convinced that
the only way to have something which really works in a satisfactory way is to
push for binary systems. You can find my report here:
http://www.lpthe.jussieu.fr/~talon/freebsdports.html

Binary updates are a great time saver for the base system, but doing it as a replacement for ports is just stupid. Do you really want EVERY gewy program to be compiled for CUPS and require Gnome!? Speaking of Ubuntu... mplayer doesn't have DVD or WMV support... you still have to compile from scratch (which is a bit of a bitch when you're missing development libraries for everything) or use something like Automatix to get packages with the good stuff they leave out.

people. Note that FreeBSD developers themselves push for *no kernel
recompilation* and use of kernel modules as far as possible. So in this
direction you are very close to what Linux distros do.

And yet the handbook even says you should recompile to add support for a firewall and other things. Not to mention I don't own a RAID controller and therefore don't need 20 extra drivers compiled in for one, and I rarely have more than 2 NICs in a machine from no more than 2 mfgs so i don't need 30 extra drivers for those either. That's just silly.

So do Solaris, and Solaris is also a Unix system which doesn't
need to be neglected, because it is *very* good.

For what purposes? Great server? yes. Desktop? not so much. I've used Solaris on and off since 2.6 on a SparcStation 2 and now Solaris 10 on an Ultra10. It's meta tools for software RAID in v10 are quite impressive, but I've had the Gnome configs get borked more times than i can count and had to wipe them out to get a desktop back up. I got tired of things getting screwed up so Gnome is gone and it now sits there headless running my backups onto it's "6 pack" set up in RAID-5 and a 4 tape changer.

Here the proof is simply in the fact that, even with the most dumbed down
and noob friendly Linux distro, 95% at least of said users fly away from
everything else than Windows. Maintaining that Unix is more user friendly that Windows is akin to saying that these 95% of people, including some
very educated people, including even computer professionals are fools.

Nobody is saying FreeBSD or UN*X is "easy". In my world "easy" is quite hard to deal with. 1 desktop, click to focus, no useable terminal, big bloated slow apps, viruses, annoying firewall software, and a lot of $$. If someone doesn't need anything more than that, then it's no skin off my back.
Working in support for as long as I have I've met quite a few "computer professionals" that *are* fools. Electrical engineers are among the worst for asking dumb questions and MCSEs come with a god complex. Hand them a section of Cat5 and a crimpter and they look at you stupid, show them a switch and they call it a router, tell them it's their windows that's broken and not our VPN and they yell at you. I get calls all the time from "consultants" that are getting paid to go out to people's houses or someone's son that's an "electrical engineer" and they haven't even RTFMs. Being a "computer professional" just means at the very least that you suckered someone into paying you for dealing with computers. There certainly are a lot of fools out there.

In fact the Unix idea of small tools, each doing well its task, and
that have to be combined is certainly admin friendly, but as certainly not
user friendly. People want big monolithic applications, doing everything,
and completely integrated, the Windows way.

Those "people" are more than welcome to spend $500 dollars on an OS that runs only on a $2000+ computer in order to live in ignorant bliss for the rest of their lives. There's obviously a market for toasters and people are willing to pay big bucks for them. They aren't my problem, nor my concern. again.. Nobody ever said UN*X is easy and anyone that does should have their head examined, but it does make things easier for those willing, wanting, and able to learn it.

--
- - james <at> hal-pc.org - -
"Try not to let your mind wander.
It is much to small to be ouside by itself."
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
.

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