Re: Why there isn't an ISO: a very bad state of mind

From: GP (gilpel_at_inverse.nretla.org)
Date: 11/04/03 

Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 17:38:04 -0500

Johan wrote:

>>So, I'm a newbie to OpenBSD and you're telling me I can add whatever I
>>want with pkg-add. Where am I supposed to find this information? Also,
>
> As to this particular question, once again, HAD YOU
> BOTHERED to read the file containing installation instructions (for instance
> INSTALL.i386) you would have known this.

No I wouldn't. I didn't indeed read this 150k file where you have such
grave subjects as What is OpenBSD, Sources, Hardware compatibility,
all shoved in with installation instructions. I preferred to read the
FAQs on installation. I know what OpenBSD is and I can find the
sources, no trouble at all.

Neither in the FAQs, ar least up to 7, nor in INSTALL.i386 is there
any mention of pkg-add. You tell me to read the files, BUT YOU NEVER
BOTHERED READING THEM YOURSELF!

What's next from you trollie? You'll tell be to do "man package-name"
to learn more about a package I've never heard of?

>>how am I supposed to learn that, for instance, Bluefish and Quanta are
>>HTML editors. What's Xine supposed to do for me... not to speak of X11.
>
> Oh come on! If you want to do html editing you would look for an html editor
> and find Bluefish and Quanta, if you need to play back video files you'd
> find xine, etc. If you do not know what it does you don't need it. If you
> want to find out, look for it on the web, or take a look at the desciptions
> of ports and packages (yes, available on the OpenBSD web site). To be
> honest, this was a really stupid question, you MUST think before you ask.

I asked the question because I wanted you to tell there's no way to
find out what every file does, let alone an evaluation of which does
the job best, except to roam the net.

Very bad basic organisation.

>>Of course, I'm a very dumb newbie. Everybody except me knows the
>>answers to my stupid questions, Mr BigBrain Hennessy will tell.
>
> Your problem is not stupid questions, we all have them in the beginning.
> Your problem is that all (each and every one you have posed so far) these
> questions have answers that are easily found in the official documentation.
> Again, you do not think before you ask.

As I explained before, not only you don't think, you don't even check
before you answer.

>>How do I learn about OpenBSD? I'm listening. My mind is not made up.
>
> Do not ask stupid questions, search for and read the available information
> and do not give up when you do not understand. If you think again and read a
> bit more you will, most of the time, understand after a while. Do not be
> lazy and do not expect to understand everything immediately. Installing
> OpenBSD does not provide instant gratification. It is not intended to be
> first and foremost a desktop OS and that is probably why you do not find it
> as approachable.

It seems to me, OpenBSD is intended to make Microsoft explain that OS
documentation is so poorly organized -- and even from the very basics!
-- that you'll loose eons running around in circles before you can
anything that's installed in a snap on Windows running properly.

> If you really don't get something, ask, but show that you
> have tried to understand. When you are saying that you have tried, all your
> comments show that you have not!

All my comments just go to show that I'm checking if OBSD is an OS
that will have me run around in circles unstead of getting to the point.

Fortunately, after 2 years of pain running Slackware, I know how some
things work. So, I take a look at OBSD pretending I know nothing and I
try to find out how easily I could find the information. Would I have
to roam the net, and the FAQs, and Google, and Groups.Google -- where
more often than not, information is erratic, bordering on
disinformation -- to read man pages too often written by people who
would be unable to write a letter to say hello to their mother and
think that newbies don't understand them because they have to use a
pidgin mumbo-jumbo to be "precise"?

Would I be facing a so-called "community' of RTFM jerks who throw at
you anything that comes to their mind without even checking
themselves. (You know. Like your "find pkg-add ins INSTALL.i386 crap.)

Is there an on-site forum where Microsoft agents who pretend that
anybody saying everything is not absolutely perfect as it is, is a
troll, can be filtered out?

On all those accounts, until now, OBSD fails.

> Take it a step at a time. With OBSD you will as a newbie probably not have a
> full desktop system up and running the first day, you will have to learn how
> things work under the hood.

I don't mind reading and learning. I mind running around in circles.
I've most probably read more than anybody on this group. Check my site
at http://www.enter-net.com/¨gpelleti and tell yourself that my topos
on mathematics, the theory of relativity, Nefertiti, Tocqueville,
whatever, is not one hundredth of what I've read.

I JUST HATE LOOSING MY TIME WITH STUPID ILLETERATE TECH-NO-SAVVY JERKS!

Since you absolutely need a firewall when you go on the internet
nowadays, I expect a firewall script to be provided with lines to
uncomment depending on the services you need. Or, a least, some very
clear instructions on how to set up a firewall or a link to said
instructions. (Daniel Robbins' on IBM's site are pretty good, IMOO.)

I just don't want to be told to roam the net and find a firewall when
I can't evaluate if the guy who wrote the firewall knows more than I.

If those instructions exist somewhere on OBSD's sitem they're not
where they should be, front row center. OBSD fails again.

> You will need to explicitly install all
> applications that you need by yourself but using the ports and/or packages
> is truly one of the nicer aspects of the *BSDs - most of the time it Just
> Works (tm).

This is common knowledge. Still, according to Google --
http://www.google.com/press/zeitgeist.html -- there's 1% or less of
the visits paid to Google with Linux. (And do Linux users ever search
with the RTFM philosophy!) Certainly, all the BSDs don't account for
more than 10% of Linux users and let's say OBSD has 1/4 of those. So
that's about 1/4 of 1/10 of 1/100 using OBSD.

1/4000, and I find that's a very optimistic estimation. If everything
is so fine, Mister Trollie, WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON?

> As for getting the the iso - why are you so hung up on that?

Because it would be the best way to get on the read to solving the
afore mentioned problem.

> Download what
> you need from your closest ftp mirror,

Becasue people like you say "Download from your closest ftp mirror", I
always download from sites where people are asleep, even if it's on
the other side of the earth. Nobody downloads from the closet mirrot!
Much faster! I got 179 KBPS on DSL from some german servers this way.
I hope you don't mind...

> Or if you absolutely want to make a bootable cd, do
> a search on Google on how to do it

I just downloaded the damned iso cd34.iso and burned it. No need to
search. It's just silly procedure to offer a 2 meg ISO.

As for fullfledged downloadable ISOs, the ones I found are either
outdated or are offered by very unofficial sources.

> (yes, cdrtools is available for Windows
> as well...).

You don't read me, and my headers either.

I'm afraid OBSD support won't cut it with this message either...

GP

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