Re: Best router solution
From: jpd (read_the_sig_at_do.not.spam.it.invalid)
Date: 03/15/05
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Date: 15 Mar 2005 20:25:00 GMT
Begin <1ad1e8b9.0503141347.204b487d@posting.google.com>
On 2005-03-14, Ghazan Haider <ghazan.haider@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > OpenBSD has the potential of being the best routing platform.
>>
>> Only if you restrict your routing needs to no more networking than obsd
>> understands. And in that there's a few other contenders as well.
>
> It has the potential.
And so do many others.
>> > Hardware
>> > will be cheap,
>>
>> If you're serious about routing the hardware will be such that you'll
>> have to buy at least double the hardware than what you really need:
>> every router with a hot-standby. peecee hardware is mediocre at best.
>
> For $300 CDN I can buy an Athlon64 CPU, motherboard and ram. Show me
> equivalent PPC, ARM, MIPS or SPARC chips.
I thought we were talking router hardware, not workstation components?
I'm not disputing that the crap is cheap. I'm saying the cheap crap is
still crap, and for reliability you need some sort of workaround for
that. And that is assuming all the world is ethernet, which it isn't
quite, just yet.
> I can also buy 5 Pentium1 machines for $50 bucks... IBM brand. Each
> one gives a better kick than a cisco 2600, almost like a 3620. Show me
> equivalent.
With those five pI boxen: How are you going to push packets down a T1 or
a E1 with them? With obsd? What is the extra cost in network attachment
hardware? So a 10BaseT WIC 2nd hand is ten times the price of a cheap
(and utterly crap) NIC for peecee. But how about, well, just about
anything else? xDSL? T* series? E* series? X.25? FR? OC? FC? &c.?
> I am aware of the hardware limitations of the x86, and all its
> inefficiencies. I only mentioned price.
And I said that it isn't as cheap as you implied and now explicitly
said, for you need more hardware to achieve at least the same level of
reliability as some more usually used routing hardware. Cisco still has
quite a bit of market while being bloody expensive even with all the
extra features that peecee stuff simply doesn't have, or is only slowly
starting to acquire, AND their falling ios quality. Still, with all the
*BSDs and l*n*x*n Out There having Lots Of Potential In The Routing
Arena, it doesn't seem to matter much. How come?
>> > and OS lean, while networking is top notch, and BGP4
>> > exists and works well...
>>
>> How often do _you_ need BGP?
>
> Not too often. I'll bet the developers of openbgpd dont _need_ it all
> the time either, so whats your point?
BGP is a big name, but just $feature on $os doesn't get you a complete
router. Let alone TEH BEST!!1 ROUTER!!1! EVER!1!!, which --I'm
exagerating, but still-- was just about the starting premise of your
OP[1]. If that wasn't what you ment to say, you've done a good job of
hiding it.
>> > RIP can be achieved by routed, but what about the rest?
>>
>> Look up gated, the non-free version. They sell for $unspecified_platform
>> but also sell source. Of course it'd be nice to have free and open
>> networking software, but it doesn't write itself.
>
> I can also look up cisco routers. Once again youre missing the point
> of either this post or this newsgroup. Or why people make free
> software. Search for the cathederal and the bazaar on google.
You asked for routing solutions, so I pointed to where you could get
them, even (presumably) for obsd. So they're not free. So help fix that.
In the meantime, if you want a solution now, there's where you can get
it.
Since this isn't an advocacy group but a place where, AIUI, one can
discuss facts (compare cola), I don't see much wrong in pointing you to
somewhere as close as you can currently get to a workable answer. Why
you insist on construing that as me missing your point, well, that in
all honesty is indeed a bit beyond me.
>> > I'm personally
>> > very curious about OpenOSPFD and impatient about it. OSPF is the
>>
>> If you know lots about I'm sure you could try and help with the project.
>
> If I knew even more, I could make another fork of BSD. If I knew
> better still, I could create a free IOS for use on all platforms.
If you knew better you'd know that forking yet again might not be such a
swell idea, just as the original obsd fork wasn't born out of love for
mankind, either.
>> > biggest interior routing protocol for many reasons. Apart from that
>> > we'd be left with IS-IS, but really, who uses that anymore? And does
>>
>> IPv6 is big on IS-IS. But who still runs RIPv1? Still, you seem to be
>> happy it is available.
>
> Who uses RIP? How about EVERYONE with Windows 2000, and EVERYONE with
> Windows XP Pro?
Hm, I've got a network full of that but no RIP in sight. I'm not letting
those things route anything, though. Maybe that has something to do with it.
> Any MCSE knows that c'mon.
Oh, was it in the minesweeper manual, then?
> A better question is who runs IS-IS on ipv6?
surfnet did, for one. Who else I don't know, I've been a bit out of that
scene lately.
> You missed the point of my post. I am a user. I'm also a supporter and
> part-tester. I do have a pile of old cisco routers I can use for
> routing purposes... and I do use them. That does not mean I am barred
> from discussing routing on OpenBSD.
Oh, is that what you wanted to say. It looked more like a slightly-
informed and rather naive ``all hail $foo'' posting, but hey, now that
you mention it. Having a pile of ciscos is of course also good.
And yes, you still may discuss obsd, of course.
> Will I need it? If not, should I just not ask questions about it on
> the newsgroups? Well, I dont need it, and I will ask questions because
> I'd like to be in a position where I'll need OpenBSD as a
> multiprotocol router. I'm a well-wisher.
So, was your OP[1] a well-wishing post or a question for information
on when openospf+openrip+openbgp was going to kick ciscos ass on their
own hardware? Or is it `and'?
[1] s/er/ing/
-- j p d (at) d s b (dot) t u d e l f t (dot) n l .
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