Re: CRN is Outta Their Tree--DARL MCBRIDE?

From: Joe Dunning (joe_at_blahblah.invalid)
Date: 12/05/03 

Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2003 21:59:59 GMT

On Fri, 5 Dec 2003 21:28:49 +0000 (UTC), Tony Lawrence
<apl@shell01.TheWorld.com> wrote:

>Joe Dunning <joe@blahblah.invalid> wrote:
>
>>Well, I think many would argue that GPL software is beating Microsoft in
>>the speed of development. Perhaps not yet in the marketplace.
>
>Well, the marketplace is what is important.

Firstly, the marketplace is only important if your measure of success is
money. As I stated before, many people do not measure success purely in
financial terms. However, I also put the word "yet" in there. I believe
that the marketplace will eventually catch up.

>
>>>
>>>
>>>But regardless, you haven't offered any proof that this fast development has had
>>>anything to do with things given back that would not have been without
>>>the existing license.
>
>>One acronym: BSD
>
>>I think there is empirical proof of the GPL's value when you look at the
>>relative development rates and market penetrations of GPL (mostly
>>GNU/Linux) compared to *BSD.
>
>And I disagree. I contend that BSD devevelopmenmt makes its own problems
>because of exclusivity and snobbishness.

And your proof of that would be?

>
>>>
>>>>(3) IBM and many competing IT companies contribute to the Linux community
>>>>because they alone could not fund a development project of such scope on
>>>>their own. IBM can contribute significant advances in VM while watching
>>>>equal development being done on deep bit graphics by the motion picture
>>>>industry.
>>>
>>>
>>>And is it your belief that IBM would NOT contribute back if not for the
>>>GPL requirements?
>
>>I suspect that IBM would contribute back selectively.
>
>I suspect that nothing whatsoever would change.
>
>At least until IBM no longer sees Linux as a tool in its war with
>Microsoft. At that point, IBM will do what it damn well pleases in
>spite of any GPL and will lock you up in patent hell if you dare
>whimper about it.

1. You are acknowledging a war with Microsoft.

2. Since BSD cade can be used and turned into proprietary code by
Microsoft, code donated to open source under a BSD license is a very
weak weapon against MS.

>
>>I think their prissy exclusivity is a direct result of the license they
>>use. How do you run an open source project when you have people that
>>can leech off your work and give nothing back? People or companies who
>>are responsible for a sub-project can suddenly fork it into a
>>proprietary project, leaving the original BSD version to wither and die.
>>To protect against this, you are careful to only allow people you trust
>>to contribute (AKA "prissy exclusivity").
>
>I don't see this. So someone forks and disappears from sight? How is
>that different from someone dying, getting too busy, etc?

I did say "disappears from sight". In fact the opposite. They stop
contributing to BSD, take all the code, and start selling it (with a few
proprietary add-ons) AS THEIR OWN LICENSED CODE.

>
>>>
>>>You've offered absolutely no proof of its superiority. Conjecture and
>>>unsupported opinion only.
>
>>And you have used only conjecture and unsupported opinion to attempt to
>>counter Brian's arguments
>
>But I'm not trying to counter Brian's arguments. I stated that I THINK IT'S
>SILLY. I said other people can have different opinions.

That's true, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. You are
entitled to your own opinion.

What Brian and I have pointed out is that you have yet to show any proof
that your opinion has any facts to support it. Nevertheless, you are
entitled to have your own opinions, whether those opinions are sound or
totally whacko.

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