Re: SCO brings ELF and Sys V init into lawsuit?

From: bill drescher (nobody_at_Spamcop.net)
Date: 07/19/04 

Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2004 20:32:30 -0400

Bill Vermillion wrote:

> In article <cdb477$l3s@odbk17.prod.google.com>,
> Tony Lawrence <pcunix@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>(From http://aplawrence.com/Blog/B992.html)
>
>
>>Apparently SCO has added Sys V style init scripts and the ELF
>>executable format to its list of misused code in the IBM lawsuit. If
>>that were to hold up, it's pretty nasty. Even the most non-techy judge
>>or jury would agree that Linux certainly does use ELF and Sys V init.
>
>
>>But it always did.
>
>
>>This certainly can't be part of the IBM suit, because these were part
>>of Linux from day one, long before IBM realized that the little penguin
>>was useful against Microsoft. In http://aplawrence.com/Blog/B832.html,
>>I asked why SCO hadn't jumped on Linux earlier. That was back when we
>>still thought the case was about esoteric memory managment schemes and
>>SMP code. If ELF and Sys V init are what SCO claims they own, they
>>should have had Linux in court a long time ago.
>
>
>>But they didn't.
>
>
>>I am not a lawyer. Every time I think something is plain and obvious,
>>my lawyer tells me there's more to it, and vice versa. So I am
>>definitely talking through my hat here when I say that it seems to me
>>that it is a little late to be yelling theft now. If Linux "stole" Sys
>>V init and ELF, SCO certainly knew that way back when. This stuff isn't
>>buried in a gazillion lines of code, it doesn't take MIT mathematicians
>>to ferret this out: it's right there, in plain sight, and anyone can
>>see it. Again, SCO certainly cannot blame IBM for passing this to
>>Linux, because this predates IBM's involvement entirely!
>
>
> I remember the first time I had a system that started using ELF and
> the OS [IRIX] went through and purged all non-Elf [or is the Elven]
> files. That was about 1995 - so this goes back a long way.
>
>
>>Sometimes I feel like I must be living in some alternate universe where
>>nothing makes any sense. I don't know whether it's possible to "own"
>>Sys V style init or ELF. I don't know enough about their respective
>>heritage to make any guess as to whether SCO can make this stick. I do
>>have the opinion that it will be a sad day for all of us if they do,
>>because stifling innovation is never good, and killing or crippling
>>Linux would do tremendous damage to Unixish OSes. If SCO gets this
>>plum, it will be Microsoft who ends up eating it for dessert.
>
>
> There is always the BSD world. It's code was made clean by the
> lawsuit that AT&T started against BSDI and then had the Regents
> join in when it was shown that AT&T had taken BSD code and stripped
> the copyrights. And the init code on this machine has a copyright
> date of 1991 and 1993 by The Regents.
>
> I've heard some Linux users complain about BSD because it means
> that MS can take code from BSD, and thus BSD futhers the MS cause.
>
> Technical problems in court cases can have problems because of
> mis-understanding of the technical details by those handling the
> details. Just look at some of the decisions we've seen in the
> past few years.
>
> My ELF man page references the Santa Cruz Operation System V
> Application Binary Interface, Unix System Laboratories "Object
> Files" Executeable and Linking Format [ELF] and Hewlett Packard
> Elf-64 Object File Format.
>
> That can lead to a crooked path.
>
> Notes say that "The ELF format is an adopted standard". I thought
> standards couldn't be proprietary or owned.
>
> I see another document that says "Portions of the ELF specification
> copyright Unix System Laboratories, Inc". But it does not say
> what portions.
>
> It would not be fun if we all have to go back to COFF.
>
>
You only have a certain number of years, 6 in Michigan, to sue.
The time starts running when you know, *or should have known* of the
damages. I don't know how long it is in Federal court, but I doubt it
is more than 10 years. 

-- 
Bill Drescher
william {at} TechServSys {dot} com