Re: Question: login in system
From: Tony Lawrence (foo_at_pcunix.com)
Date: 06/15/05
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Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 05:47:08 -0400
Brian K. White wrote:
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tony Lawrence" <foo@pcunix.com>
> Newsgroups: comp.unix.sco.misc
> To: <distro@jpr.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2005 5:31 PM
> Subject: Re: Question: login in system
>
>
>
>>There's nothing inherently wrong with top posting. It's simply a cultural
>>thing; if we had started out doing it this way, people would object to
>>bottom posters.
>>
>>That's not to denigrate cultural customs, of course. When in Rome, etc.
>>
>>Brian K. White wrote:
>>
>>>This is top-posting.
>>>It's about like writing your thesis in crayon.
>>>The only reason everyone does it because Microsoft issued only crayons to
>>>a bezillion people all at once and it was the first writing instrument
>>>most of them ever used and so they all use them and don't realize that
>>>crayons are a really stupid way to try to write a document.
>>>
>>>--
>>>Brian K. White -- brian@aljex.com -- http://www.aljex.com/bkw/
>>>+++++[>+++[>+++++>+++++++<<-]<-]>>+.>.+++++.+++++++.-.[>+<---]>++.
>>>filePro BBx Linux SCO Prosper/FACTS AutoCAD #callahans Satriani
>>>
>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>From: "BB...@gmail.com" <brent.bolin@gmail.com>
>>>Newsgroups: comp.unix.sco.misc
>>>To: <distro@jpr.com>
>>>Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2005 10:26 AM
>>>Subject: Re: Question: login in system
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Top
>>>>Would this be considered middle posting ?
>>>>Bottom
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>--
>>Tony Lawrence
>>Unix/Linux/Mac OS X resources: http://aplawrence.com
>>
>
>
> There is an inherent wrongness as long as our context is written languages
> that read from the top-down, which is what, all of them? It wouldn't be
> unfair even if we limited it to English since that is what every post to
> this newsgroup is written in.
>
> Find a language whose written form starts at the bottom and proceeds
> upwards, and then find an email client for that laguage that correspondingly
> opens emails with the focus at the bottom at first, and then make it the
> most common language in use on the internet, or in this newsgroup, and then
> you have a point.
>
> Until then, top-down chronology is not an arbitrary arrangement no better
> than any other.
> It is empirically observably the most intuitive and most naturally readable
> with the least requirement of conscious deciphering.
>
> I will say this much though, if everyone always top-posted then that would
> at least be better than some doing it one way and some another.
> The bottom is undeniably the right place for replies,
> but this post would undeniably be more readable if I had continued the
> established top-posting pattern.
>
> The only thing worse than a poor standard is no standard.
>
> Brian K. White -- brian@aljex.com -- http://www.aljex.com/bkw/
> +++++[>+++[>+++++>+++++++<<-]<-]>>+.>.+++++.+++++++.-.[>+<---]>++.
> filePro BBx Linux SCO Prosper/FACTS AutoCAD #callahans Satriani
>
The argument in favor of top posting is that the new material is
immediately visible, and the older, reference material follows below,
where you don't have to look at it if you don't care.
Some people find our Usenet style confusing - it's why you'll see people
at message boards saying that they hate Usenet. The same people get
confused if you reply to them "in-line" in email. I've had customers
write back asking why I didn't answer their questions. Of course I did,
but it was in-line and they get confused. I make a mental note to
always top-post when replying to them, and to use bookish quoting:
You asked "what is blah blah". Blah blah is..
I think part of that is mechanical reading skill. Poor readers don't
automatically go into high speed browse mode for lines beginning with
">" - maybe they don't even have a high speed browse mode. So they
can't effortlessly pick out the lines that don't have leading ">" (and
batten the hatches if they have to put up with it and someone changes
the quote character - oh my!).
It's hard for them to tell what's going on - bottom posting is probably
easier for them than in-line, but even bottom posting is hard because
they have to look very carefully to see where the new text starts.
People with poor reading skills are the ones most likely to tell you
that they "haven't figured out this computer stuff yet".
There is also a relationship between poor reading, poor spelling and
dislike of Unix command lines. Poor typing skills don't seem to matter
(plenty of one finger Unix typists around) but poor readers don't like
text interfaces and poor spellers sure don't like command lines.
But - all that aside - top posting is just a cultural thing. It's
nothing to do with written language flow, it does have advantages, but
"we" don't like it. And because this is what the majority is used to
and expects, visitors should follow the convention or risk anger.
-- Tony Lawrence Unix/Linux/Mac OS X resources: http://aplawrence.com
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