Re: How long does Sun have to live? (OT RANT)
From: Steve (REMOVEusenet_at_neoixCAMOUFLAGE.net)
Date: 09/25/03
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Date: 25 Sep 2003 13:58:53 GMT
In article <x5y65jivyu3.fsf@mother.corp.google.com>, Frank Cusack wrote:
> On 24 Sep 2003 13:56:22 GMT Steve <REMOVEusenet@neoixCAMOUFLAGE.net> wrote:
>> In article <5d5d68dc.0309230700.474d8b84@posting.google.com>,
>> Derek Snider wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm far from the only person who thinks that Sun should be embracing
>>> Linux rather than scorning it:
>>>
>>> http://searchenterpriselinux.techtarget.com/originalContent/0,289142,sid39_gci928968,00.html
>>>
>>> Analyst firm urges caution on Sun's Linux strategy
>>
>> Analysts don't know diddly-squat. A monkey could read a crystal
>> ball just as well.
>
> Yeah. And I thought analysts were getting better. I guess this
> report is from an "analyst", ie marketing drivel.
>
>> Sun is coming to its senses. Linux has peaked (if you can call
>> pushing a turd to the top of the hill peaking). Lots of companies
>
> Well, that's a bit strong.
>
>> have gotten their foot mauled by Microsoft. Believing the hype
>> they have switched to Linux. The hype isn't turning out to be
>> reality. Linux is just another player. Solaris, Linux, and
>> Windows.
>
> Not at all; Linux isn't in the same camp. It lacks system integrity,
> it lacks the kind of QA that makes for robust operation, it lacks
> adequate support, it is playing catch-up in most areas. Don't get me
> wrong here, Linux (excuse me, GNU/Linux) is awesome! ** For the
> hobbyist **, or for non-critical operations, or for operations where
> simple load balancing suffices (eg, web server farm), or for
> applications that don't push the system limits, or for applications
> where you need to be very close to the metal. For that type of use,
> Linux is a winner. If Solaris can catch up on that front, it can
> completely displace it. It's unlikely in my estimation that Sun can
> execute very well on this front, given historical (and recent!)
> evidence, but better for them to try than to sign their own death
> certificate.
>
> Maybe a better statement on Linux is that it is "good enough" computing.
> And for most apps, "good enough" is, well, good enough.
I didn't mean to imply that Linux is as good as Solaris overall
any more than I meant to imply that Windows was as good as Solaris.
I was referring to market reality of "popularity". Those 3 are
it.
Depending on the application, the level of "good enough" varies.
Except for desktops, Solaris is the top of the pyramid. For
desktops, Windows is the top - as much for inertia as anything
else. The only place where the Linux myth says it is the top
is in cost - which is just hogwash.
> The problem for Sun is that the market for Solaris is shrinking. If
> they embrace Linux, well, they are conceding that part (the low end)
> of the market and that reduces the value of Solaris. No one wants to
> run multiple OSes; it's too difficult to be expert in more than 1.
> And the low end of the market is growing, in absolute terms and more
> so in relation to the high end. I think that giving up the low end
> (embracing Linux) leaks too much into the high end. Better to leak
> Solaris into the low end.
>
> Why should Sun spend gobs of money investing in Linux robustness when
> Solaris is already there?
Absolutely agree!
>> Regardless, Mad Hatter is not going to be the final solution
>> for desktops. You can say all you like about features
>> you don't like about MacOS X, but as an overall desktop package
>> it is far beyond Windoze or Mad Hatter or CDE. I'm a long-
>
> Well, I'd disagree with that. OS X is definitely easier to use and
> perhaps more graceful than Windows, but it's certainly not "far beyond"
> Windows. Windows is superior in many ways and will continue to dominate
> for some time. Probably until large foreign governments (ie, China,
> India) commit to developing alternatives. The US would never do that
> (and probably shouldn't).
>
> I doubt Apple will ever make serious inroads into business computing.
> Or HPC. The recent supercomputer announcement is a nice marketing
> piece, but in the end those guys will probably run Linux or NetBSD
> on that shiny Apple hardware.
I was talking about Mad Hatter and desktops. Mad Hatter is aimed
at the "light" use that Windows and MacOS X are aimed at.
There are some minor things I don't like about MacOS. There are
more things I don't like about Windows. None are perfect.
Out of the box, MacOS, especially for personal/non-business
use, is a home run. Granted iPhoto, iMovie, iDVD, iTunes, ...
are not business applications.
But what do 99% of "business desktops" use Windows for? Three
things - Office, Email and Browser. The main reason is massive
inertia in business environments - when most people use these,
the portability of data and user knowledge is huge. Neither
Email or Browser are any better than any other. Office is
starting to crack - OpenOffice/StarOffice competition.
Mad Hatter is not much more than Gnome, Mozilla, and StarOffice.
Gnome is not on the same plane as Aqua. Mozilla continues to
disappoint - nothing over Safari. StarOffice is ok but there
is nothing about Mad Hatter that is unique - run it on Linux
or MacOS or anything else.
When you say Windows will continue to dominate that is exactly
right - and Mad Hatter isn't going to do anything more for Sun
than any other previous attempt.
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