Re: 280R and A5200 question

From: Rich Pierson (no_at_no.net)
Date: 07/01/04 

Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 19:54:55 -0500

Juhan Leemet <juhan@logicognosis.com> wrote in
news:pan.2004.06.30.20.50.19.978145@logicognosis.com:

> On Wed, 30 Jun 2004 08:17:18 -0500, Rich Pierson wrote:
>> Juhan Leemet <juhan@logicognosis.com> wrote in
>> news:pan.2004.06.30.05.29.08.316968@logicognosis.com:
>>> You don't say what the purpose of this storage is, i.e. access
>>> stats.
>>>
>>> On Tue, 29 Jun 2004 21:20:53 -0400, Dennis Clarke wrote:
>>>> Good config. That should work well. I guess that you are not
>>>> using an additional controller or fibre HBA ?
>>>>
>>>> You seem to want RAID for some reason. My only advice is "don't do
>>>> that." The A5200 does not provide a hardware RAID controller... For
>>>> now I simply suggest that you do not perform a RAID setup. The
>>>> performance is terrible. Go with a stripe with reasonable stripe
>>>> depth.
>>>
>>> While I would generally agree with this advice, I think the design
>>> tradeoff(s) should take into account the usage.
>>>
>>> While it is true that in my case I measured a 5x disk I/O
>>> overhead...
> [on writing, not reading]
>>> ...My usage is: seldom write, occasionally read. Depends on
>>> situation. I would say: if you can stand writing to your disk array
>>> at 1/5th the normal write throughput, S/W RAID5 might still be
>>> viable alternative...
>>>
>> Actually there is going to be an iplanet portal running on this, the
>> array is going to be used to store scanned images that customers
>> download to the portal server. They, the images, can then be
>> downloaded by various coders around the country who will be viewing
>> the images and moving the information over to a spread *** locally
>> then uploading the completed spreadsheets back to the portal where
>> the customer will grab them back. Most of the coders are using either
>> cable or DSL and two with satellite
>
> Sounds vaguely similar to some document imaging stuff I was working
> with in the "infancy" of bitmap document image handling, quite a while
> ago.
>
> Sounds like you're setting up "virtual" queues or FIFOs, with one
> image in, one image out. Then another lower volume structured info
> stream in. (That's A = asymmetric?) DSL and cable are much better for
> download than upload. I believe the ratio is about 10 to 1, which
> twice worse than my 1 to 5 rule of thumb for write performance ratio
> for S/W RAID5, so "on balance" you should be OK. The image upload side
> throughput will be choked by network before your S/W RAID5 limitations
> come to play.
>
> I guess response time is not an issue? Customers won't get annoyed at
> the long time for uploading images? Don't need to know application
> details.
>
>> ...Currently I'm not really concerned with performance as my limiting
>> factor is limited big time by only having a dual T1...and very little
>> minipulation is done inhouse other than to move the older [30 day]
>> images over to some spare 30 gig drives in the E250's drive bay where
>> they eventually get moved to a DDS4 tape every 3 months tar'd and
>> sent to the customer...
>
> Hmm, dual T1 = 2 x 1.54Mbps = 400KBps (back of envelope calculation)
> Sounds OK for any kind of S/W RAID5. I don't see any throughput
> problem.
>
>> ... It will be several months before I can justify moving...
>
> Sounds like good business planning... pay as you go...
>
>> ... We bought the A5200 used and I'm wondering if they came
>> with some kind of management software when new and thats the piece of
>> the puzzle...
>
> Hmm, I'm wondering a similar thing about a MetaStore (a clone of
> D1000?), which is similar to your stuff, but not as performanct. I
> think there are drivers for the HVD SCSI boards, but the boxes are
> just JBOD? Dunno if there is management software. The D1000 (and
> MetaStore) have some configuration switches on the back. I'm still
> investigating. If you have any hints, I'm also interested.
>
> On top of the JBOD, I think SVM (Volume Manager) or 3rd party is
> required for RAID stuff. Don't think the A5200 or D1000 (or MetaStore)
> have smarts.
>
> Beautiful, and the right approach, I think. Sun should, too, despite
> any annoyance of the marketdroids. I would love to have a fledgeling
> business/idea with a "performance problem", i.e. money coming in and
> requiring a bit better something. What an easy way to justify spending
> some of the revenue stream on bigger/better gear!
>
> I guess I've become jaded with the "consluting" scene. Abuse for
> reluctant pay, often by unappreciative PHBs trying to weasel out of
> responsibilties. ...or maybe I need to find a better class of
> customer?
>
>> ... Still curious why the SMC 2.1 console goes off into never
>> never land when I try to use the extended option under storage, maybe
>> it's looking for some of that possibly missing software ??? ...
>
> Seems to be not uncommon experience. Same for me, but I thought it was
> my antiquated gear (2 x 400MHz CPUs in Ultra2), but others have
> reported similar experiences. See other thread(s).
>
>> ...I just
>> started reading the sun doc on the a5200 I pulled down and printed
>> last nite so perhaps there will be some answers there...
>
> Good luck. Sounds good, so far.
>

I'm hearing this sun volume manger or disk manger thing mentioned, where
is the software located. WHere do I install it from. I went thru the
whole 9 DVD and the accy cd looking but could find nothing.